Proper grounding....

[capncrunk]

I live in an apt complex. I have mounted my dish far from any thing I could ground it to, and wouldn't touch anything electrical that I could, since it's not mine.
My pole is approx 2 feet deep in the ground.
I'm not experiencing any probs, just want it done right. is it sufficient to ground the line to the sat mast, or can I put in a ground connector indoors that runs to the screw on my electrical socket plate cover (like the good ol days)?

[fossil112]

since your mast is driven into the ground, you're good to go. the grounding system that you're using for your dish, and the grounding system your apt complex is using, is the same thing. both systems are physically driven into the earth...no worries

[bill of oz]

Originally Posted by fossil112

since your mast is driven into the ground, you're good to go. the grounding system that you're using for your dish, and the grounding system your apt complex is using, is the same thing. both systems are physically driven into the earth...no worries

this is true as far as the dish grounding is concerned.....but the cable should also be grouded via a grounding block......

[hazwis]

i would only ground one end since earth ground likely is electrically different than the internal ground that likely winds up on a water pipe. if there is a difference of potential, you can create a ground loop. ide just ground the outside like you have done and rely on the ac ground in your house to provide ground to the unit.

[originalfacsimi]

That is correct however code says that the line coming into a "home" should be grounded. I ground both my mast and coax with different ground wire however they both terminated at the same ground rod.

Originally Posted by hazwis

i would only ground one end since earth ground likely is electrically different than the internal ground that likely winds up on a water pipe. if there is a difference of potential, you can create a ground loop. ide just ground the outside like you have done and rely on the ac ground in your house to provide ground to the unit.

[capncrunk]

So if i install a grounding block just past the diseqc and screw it into the pole, i will be grounding my coax effeciently?

[ccelectro]

To keep from having a ground loop you should take everything to your service ground, this will give a straight and direct path for everything in your set up.

[originalfacsimi]

Yesir that is correct however my service panel is grounded to same grounding rod outside the home.

Originally Posted by ccelectro

To keep from having a ground loop you should take everything to your service ground, this will give a straight and direct path for everything in your set up.

[bill of oz]

Originally Posted by originalfacsimi

Yesir that is correct however my service panel is grounded to same grounding rod outside the home.

you need to run a ground wire from the dish to your grounding rod.....

also....you need to ground the coax/switches with a grounding block.....run a second ground wire from the ground block to the grounding rod......mounting your grounding block near the grounding rod would be best if possible......

[fossil112]

Originally Posted by bill of oz

this is true as far as the dish grounding is concerned.....but the cable should also be grouded via a grounding block......

that's a correct/good idea, however, it's most likely redundant.
the cable is grounded via the receiver, which is grounded to the electrical service panel, which is grounded by the rod outside. the service panel ground rod and the mast are both grounded in the same soil. assuming the soils are similar(will be unless soils are significantly different), the potential difference between soils (dish and cable) is zero.

[bill of oz]

Originally Posted by fossil112

.
the cable is grounded via the receiver, which is grounded to the electrical service panel, which is grounded by the rod outside..

This is only true if your reciever is equipt with a 3 prong grounded electrical plug,

99% of all recievers I have seen only come with a 2 prong electrical plug, these plugs are not providing any ground connection for the reciever or the cable, which is why a grounding block and wire is nessessary,

[fossil112]

you are correct. most receivers don't have a 3rd prong, because it's not really needed. however, it's not safe to say that the receiver isn't grounded because it's lacking a prong.
the 2nd and 3rd prong are the ground and the neutral of the circuit. they physically tie together back at the main service panel of his apt complex. typically, only motors and surge protectors have the 3rd prong, so a fault current on the neutral can be detected, which would cause the breaker to trip (so long as it's a GFCI breaker or outlet).
you'll often see 3rd prongs on equipment that has a heavy current draw (like microwaves), or equipment that runs a chance of accidental unbalanced motor loads (like your vaccuum cleaner).
so long as his apt complex has their installation per code (God willing ) he should be in good hands.
you brought out a very good topic!

[bill of oz]

Originally Posted by fossil112

you are correct. most receivers don't have a 3rd prong, because it's not really needed. however, it's not safe to say that the receiver isn't grounded because it's lacking a prong.
the 2nd and 3rd prong are the ground and the neutral of the circuit. they physically tie together back at the main service panel of his apt complex. typically, only motors and surge protectors have the 3rd prong, so a fault current on the neutral can be detected, which would cause the breaker to trip (so long as it's a GFCI breaker or outlet).
you'll often see 3rd prongs on equipment that has a heavy current draw (like microwaves), or equipment that runs a chance of accidental unbalanced motor loads (like your vaccuum cleaner).
so long as his apt complex has their installation per code (God willing ) he should be in good hands.
you brought out a very good topic!

You are correct, the neutral and ground wires are connected at the main panel,

But the neutral wire only serves one purpose, it is basically the ground wire for the electrical circuit, that is its one and only job,

The neutral wire does not ground electrical appliances, if this was the case, in the event of a short curcuit, you could touch your receiver and get zapped,
Also, if this was the case, when there is a voltage imbalance, such as in a milti-wire circuit, there is current flowing on the neutral wire, so all that current would then be flowing through the casing of your reciever, and the sheilding of your cables, this would cause a static picture on your tv, and possibly even fry your switches or lnbs

[Jacques d'Boeuf]

c&p from articles.directorym.net

Lightning Protection System Grounding


Though unpredictable, lightning is a very common event around the world. There are more than 40,000 storms every day producing more than eight million lightning strokes. These strokes can result in fires, damage to buildings, and breakdowns to electrical, telephone and computer installations. Damage results from electromagnetic fields from the lightning stroke, voltage differentials in ground systems, and structural damage from ohmic heating or mechanical forces. Damage can be attributed to insufficient direct-strike protection, inappropriate grounding and bonding that permit lightning currents to flow near susceptible electronics, and deficient Transient Voltage Surge Suppression (TVSS) protection.
What can be done to protect personnel and capital investments? The best approach to prevention is a properly designed and installed lightning protection (LP) mitigation system (Reference NFPA 780, UL 96 and UL 96A for LP equipment and proper installation procedures). The foundation upon which the LP system is built is a properly designed grounding electrode system, complemented with proper bonding practices, to create an equipotential plane and the application of TVSS to all power, communication and data signal lines.
Lightning's Nature

The properties of a lightning stroke are indeed impressive, with an instantaneous power of over one Megawatt and, on average, a peak current level of 30,000 Amperes. There are three main lightning interactions that need to be considered:

1. Direct lightning stroke to the facility
2. Near stroke that induces large voltage impulses in metal conductors
3. Ringing results that occur when a tuned cable captures similar frequencies from the radiated stroke.

Lightning Protection

The most popular methods of lightning protection have involved the use of passive Franklin air terminals, horizontal and vertical conductors or combinations thereof. The LP system is dependent on the ground electrode system to effectively dissipate lightning energy into the earth. The characteristics of a ground system under the impulse conditions of a lightning stroke are important if an effective LP ground system is to be implemented. This ensures that the grounding system provides low ground impedance and not just a low resistance. This is a central point to the philosophy of LP ground system design.
The impulse from a lightning stroke is comprised of both high- and low-frequency components. The wave shape of the impulse is characterized by a very steep rise in voltage and current followed by a long tail of excess energy content. The high frequency is associated with the fast rising front while the lower frequency component resides in the long, high-energy tail. Because of this steep rate of current rise, the inductance of the ground system becomes a central point of the design. The voltage rise, known as Ground Potential Rise (GPR), is dependent not just on the system resistance, but more importantly, the impedance (inductive reactance) of the system. The voltage rise can be expressed by the following formula, where I (A) is the instantaneous current, R (Ω) is the system resistance, L (µH) is the inductance of the system, and dI/dt (kA/µsec) is the current rate to peak of the impulse.
The injection point on the structure can reach hundreds of thousands or even millions of volts relative to remote earth, due to the lightning stroke. The dominant factor attributed to this large impressed voltage is the product of the inductance and the rapid rate of current from the impulse. It is this type of large voltage rise that leads to the hazard known as flashover — arcing from the LP system to an adjacent metallic conductor due to the dielectric breakdown of air between the conductors. Therefore, a low impedance ground is essential to the performance of the LP system.
A Grounding System

The ultimate goal of a LP ground system is to dissipate the energy from the lightning stroke into the earth, safely and efficiently. The efficacy of the system is one in which the potential rise of the surrounding earth is minimized and the rate of potential fall from the injection point is maximized. Step and touch potentials are maintained to safe levels and an equipotential ground plane is created to ensure the safety of equipment and personnel. Equipotential bonding is used throughout the installation to eliminate damage caused by differential ground potentials. Note that the National Electric Code (NEC) requires that the grounds from all systems including, power, cable, telephone and LP be bonded together.
The LP grounding system must be robust and constructed from materials that will perform for the service life of the building or structure that it is protecting. Inductance and skin effects are the major considerations in selection of conductors, connectors and installation practices. Radials constructed of flat strip or cable, and typically embedded in a ground enhancement material, are the most effective electrodes in reducing GPR and directing lightning energy away from the point of injection. Other commonly used electrodes include ground rods, plates, and enhanced or electrolytic ground rods.
Exothermically welded connections provide the lowest inductance path for high frequency lightning surges while providing the highest level of reliability. They are mandatory for below-grade connections and reduce the concern of corrosive deterioration.
Soil Considerations

Knowing the resistivity of the soil is important since the resistance of a ground electrode or a complete electrode system is directly proportional to soil resistivity. The most common method utilized for measuring soil resistivity is the Four Point Method using the equally spaced Wenner Arrangement. This method is commonly referred to as the Four Pin Method. The Fall of Potential Method is most commonly used to measure the resistance of a ground electrode system, though in some situations, clamp-on style ground testers provide valuable information. The resistance of the installed systems is typically under five ohms.
Knowing the soil resistivity allows the designer to apply what is known about LP grounding conductors and electrodes. For example, if the upper layer is poorly conductive, larger radial wire or strip should be used to reduce the inductance between ground rods, and the spacing between the rods should be decreased. Changing conductor size and rod spacing is required due to the soil not shunting the radial inductance as it would if this layer were conductive. The impedance of the radial conductors can be greatly reduced by the addition of conductive ground enhancement materials around the conductors. Furthermore, high resistivity soils can cause a high concentration in the electric field around an electrode, which may cause arcing in the soil that can fuse the soil into a glass material (fulgurites). This glass material will no longer be conductive.
A periodic inspection program is needed to ensure that continuity exists throughout the ground system. Annual testing is recommended to verify that the system is operating at an optimal level. Regular inspections need to test both the electrical resistance of the system to remote earth as well as continuity within the system.

[ccelectro]

To say that putting a ground rod in the ground is the same as the ground on the service is far from true, the service ground is mainly for the lightning protection for your service. when you add equipment that has a signal and dc current that generates that signal, it is best to keep your ground connected directly to your service ground to keep out " noise" generated by other electrical equipment, that can alter the signal. just putting in a ground rod out in the yard does not guarantee this.

[capncrunk]

So here in my Apt complex, where i refuse to even locate a service ground (letalone run a wire to it from my dish) Wouldn't I be doing the same thing by installing the grounding block inside my home and running the wire from the block to the screw on a socket faceplate?(which as i understand is the same thing as the 3rd prong)

Or should I just say F- it? i'm not having problems, why touch it. no other dish i have seen installed in apt complex has a grounding block on it...

[ccelectro]

No that is not the same thing, especially in a residential building. Unless you are sure that the box that the receptacle is in is grounded back to the service or there is a three prong 110 receptacle that is not an isolated ground the screw would be grounded, but that is never good practice to do that.

[originalfacsimi]

I don't know why but ever site I visit someone will bring up this subject as well as it should be; personal safety.

The electric company provides the main ground at all locations. Easy to see are the pole mounted Xformers as you can see the main ground running down the side of the pole. This is to protect THEIR equipment. As you enter your service your MUST also have a grounding rod and this is to protect your equipment, not so much as you. Bill is correct when he talked about the two prong plug. The neutral and the ground are bonded at the service panel so that if you lose either of these two wires (neutral/ground) you will have protection.
Now if you have a hot tub, whirlpool, under elevation connections (washer/dryer in basement) you will need a GFCI which is for personnel protection. In this instance there must be three separate wires run with nothing bonded. These circuits work on a difference of current entering a circuit verus current leaving. If any difference they trip.
Now as everone has stated, you must not create a ground loop particually at these extremely low signals. Most of the new homes take care of the grounding of the house is bounded/welded physically together however in the older homes we need to take care.
Your service panel is to be grounded to a ground rod (depth determined by local ordinace) and in order to not form a ground loop, everything else (externally) should be grounded to SAME.

[ccelectro]

"But the neutral wire only serves one purpose, it is basically the ground wire for the electrical circuit, that is its one and only job," This is not correct, the neutral wire is a load carrying conductor, the ground is for short circuit protection. Your circuit has to have a return, this is your neutral. the ground is bonded to the neutral at the first means of disconnect on the service only. If you have a wire short or touch any thing like your appliance or your pluming, the ground will give it a direct path to your short circuit protection and not leave it live.

[Jacques d'Boeuf]

If lightning hits your dish and travels through the building wiring and maybe even causing a fire you will be liable for the damage. Good luck buying a house