dpp44 and dp34 switch operation

[bel71281]

c/p from eeqmc2


I decided to post this info to help the community out:
After reading some great info from several sites and doing my own testing here is what i found out bout the dpp44 switch which can help some people.

The dpp44 and dp34 switches must has an internal switch table that takes advantage of diseqc 2.0. Dp twins and quad which are the most utilized dps in todays intallations come in with either 2 or 4 ports. Each port has a built in diseqc switch. So each port connects to both sats (usually 110, 119). The interesting thing is that echos*ar setups this ports and thus the internal switch so that when the lnbs are connected to a dpp44/dp34 switch they have the following default states (initial switching configuration)

dp twin:
Port 1 is port 119
port 2 is port 110

Remember each port is connected to its own diseqc internal switch. These switches must likely are 2x1 switches.These are the states of those internal switches.

dp quad:
port 1 is port 119
port 2 is port 110
port 3 is port 119
port 4 is port 110

so the quad has 4 built in diseqc switches with those default settings.

Now when you connect say a twin lnb port 1 to the dpp44 sat 1 port, twin lnb port 2 to dpp44 sat 2 port and you power up the dpp44, it performs a check switch (which resets the internal switches to the default states) and it knows what satellite is on what sat port, ie sat port1 is 119 with twin or quad port 1, and sat port 2 is 110 with twin or quad port2. After that the dpp44 doesnt really use those internal switches for the receiver ports.It uses those defaults states of the switches. When any receiver is connected to any dpp44 receiver port, the dpp44 only switches between say sat port 1 or sat port 2 inside the switch depending on what the receiver is requesting. This is why if you want a diseqc switch connected to receiver dpp ports and you have a twin or quad you must connect 2 cables to port 1 and port 2 of the switch.So when the receiver asks for a different sat, the dpp 44 only switches to the appropriate sat port, it doesnt "pass thru" a diseqc command to switch those internal switches.Note that in direct connections to a dp twin or quad you only need one cable (bet receiver and lnb) or (diseqc switch and lnb).

Now here is really i call new info: the dpp44 (and dp34) have trunking ports on the side. I found out that when i connected say a single trunking port to a 4x1 switch (single cable), i could then watch both sat locations without a problem.In another words, those trunking ports allow the diseqc commands to be propagated to the internal diseqc switch (almost as each trunking port has direct connection to the internal switches in the lnbs), so the states of those switches were changed by the request from the trunk ports.I did test this by having say one pansat 3500 connected to receiver port 1 and having say another pansat connected to trunking port 1. Initially all is good, say box 1 (off the receiver port) is on 119 and box 2 (off the trunk port is on 110).Now lets say i switched box 2 to 119. The dpp44 then allows the pass thru sat 1 port of the diseqc command to switch to 119.Sat 1 port is on 119 (internal switch is on 119) so no problem.But then i go back to 110 on box 2, now the dpp 44 allows the request to sat port 1 for 110, the internal diseqc switch in port 1 switches now to 110.Now box 1 which was looking at 119 via sat port 1, is getting 110, so you loose the image. So for the receiver ports, those internal lnbs switches inside the dp lnbs are not touched. So switching channels on box 1 didnot have any effect on box 2 as it should.
Oh one way to recover is either turn the switch power supply off and on or perform a check switch from a sub ird.The check switch procedure reinitialized the switches to the original configuration.So in this case i would loose signal on box 2 but not for long as i do a request to change channels and it will switch no problem (it changing the default state of the internal switches again).But the cycle then continues and there is no way around it.

I am not sure why they designed like that, perhaps, so that when two dpp44 switches are trunked together, the 2nd switch can get the lnb configuration.If used as in echstar procedure, then once the 2ns switch knows that configuraiton it doesnt have to communicate upstream again.


Good observation.
The check switch does more than reset the DiSEqC switches on each port but that is basically correct. The key to everything you stated is the fact you are always using the default state of the LNB port, one never changes those built in DiSEqC switches when using a DP34 and a DP44 switch.
The only time the DiSEqC switches in the 34 or 44 is changed is when your channel says it needs this sat or that sat. The check switch sets the default state of those switches and monitors the change if there is a change based on what channel is requested by port.

You are misinterpreting the port requirements for both the DP34 and the DP44 when you state certain ports must be used for 119 or 110. Neither switch cares what is on what port providing the correct default port is present somewhere on the switch. Convention and consistency is why we put 119 on port 2 and 110 on port 1; just easier to remember if you always do it the same way.
Since you have the switch you can prove this to yourself by taking 119 and putting it on port 3. Now change your menu to show 119 on port 3 and you will see you have both 110 and 119 without them being on port 1 and 2.

It is easy to confuse this characteristic so don't feel bad about it.
The reason you set the DiSEqC switches to the default port of the switch is so any DP LNB will be seen when connected to any port. If you use a DP dual (having no internal switches) the default port allows that signal to pass to the data buss.

If you add another Quad or Twin to ports 3 and 4 (adjust menu accordingly) say for Bev 82 and 91 and you do not pay attention to which goes where, then it is possible that the default 91 port (Twin) could be placed on an open port of the DP44. Resetting the defaults of the DP44 makes all ports normally closed for access to the data buss waiting for channel data to switch the internal DiSEqC to the correct data buss. Again we use the defaults of the LNB to supply a constant source of 82 and 91, no matter which port they are tied to, and using the DiSEqC commands to toggle between those two sats' data busses.

[shery20]

what a wonderful post i think you can solve my problem please read this post http://www.abadss.com/forum/93-live-...54584-lnb.html
shery20

[jcanuck98]

HUH? what is this

[shery20]

what you mean

[bel71281]

I answered in that post shery20.

[zekester]

Originally Posted by jcanuck98

HUH? what is this

I think you're in the wrong thread.

[troyk13b]

not understanding but what iwas trying to do was use the dp34 switch run 3 recievers from that and the channels are freezing i have a cs6100 and 2 dn recievers maybe you can help me please

[zekester]

Originally Posted by troyk13b

not understanding but what iwas trying to do was use the dp34 switch run 3 recievers from that and the channels are freezing i have a cs6100 and 2 dn recievers maybe you can help me please

Troy start n new thread this one is 6 Days old my friend. Post you're settings, sats you're looking at, lnb's you're using etc. Thx

[hillsmaverick]

I hope this is the right thread for this question.
Here's my problem. I have a dish 508 and a Sonicview Elite (still deciding if I want to stop the dish).
508 is connected directly to a legacy dual LNB(1) on 119.
360 is connected to the same legacy dual LNB(2) on 119 and a dp dual LNB(1) on 110 through a 1x4 DisEqC ports 1 and 2.
I realize this is a problem for the dual tunner in the 360 Elite because of the LNB voltages for H & V, so I want to set it up to fully utilize the dual tunner and dual satellite setup.

The question for all you geniuses (I know ur there) out there is: "Can I do it without running another cable into the house?" It works if I use a switch, another DisEqC and another cable, but is there a way to do it without another cable run and if so where do I get the hardware?

[s2byus]

For full utilization of the SV360 Elite as a dual tuner, 2 cables are required - one for each tuner input.
The only exceptions are when using a DPP LNB or a DPP44 switch. In these cases a DPP Separator located behind the Elite box, would be able to feed both tuners with a single cable run from a DPP LNB or from a DPP44 switch output.

[hillsmaverick]

Originally Posted by s2byus

For full utilization of the SV360 Elite as a dual tuner, 2 cables are required - one for each tuner input.
The only exceptions are when using a DPP LNB or a DPP44 switch. In these cases a DPP Separator located behind the Elite box, would be able to feed both tuners with a single cable run from a DPP LNB or from a DPP44 switch output.

That's about how I had it figured. So I guess I need an sw34 and another Diseqc and another cable run?

[s2byus]

Another possibility is replacing the Legacy dual with a dp dual (or single) LNB.
Two cables from the dish - one from each DP LNB into the home to 2 inputs of a dp34 switch having 4 receiver outputs - 2 of them for the Elite and one for the DN 508.

[hillsmaverick]

My DN package is only for 119, when I first hooked up the dp LNB I had it on 119 and the legacy was on 110. I only got odd TP's on 119, so I switched the LNB's and everything works. Since then I've figured out the voltage issue with evens and odds (I'm on the steep part of the learning curve) but I'm still not sure why the 508 wasn't able to get the even TP's since it was on it's own connection. All that said I'm a little leery of the dp LNB (my ignorance shows).

So if I understand correctly the dp34 sorts out the V&H and the 2 sats for up to 4 recvrs combined IRD and FTA?

[s2byus]

Originally Posted by hillsmaverick

My DN package is only for 119, when I first hooked up the dp LNB I had it on 119 and the legacy was on 110. I only got odd TP's on 119, so I switched the LNB's and everything works. Since then I've figured out the voltage issue with evens and odds (I'm on the steep part of the learning curve) but I'm still not sure why the 508 wasn't able to get the even TP's since it was on it's own connection. All that said I'm a little leery of the dp LNB (my ignorance shows).

So if I understand correctly the dp34 sorts out the V&H and the 2 sats for up to 4 recvrs combined IRD and FTA?

I believe things may be a little different. The Dish 508 is a dishpro compatible so I guess the 119 is the dp LNB.

The dp34 does not work for Legacy LNBs, only for DishPro LNBs. Its only function is to provide 4 outputs, each with the ability of independently selecting one of its 3 inputs.

[hillsmaverick]

Originally Posted by s2byus

I believe things may be a little different. The Dish 508 is a dishpro compatible so I guess the 119 is the dp LNB.

The dp34 does not work for Legacy LNBs, only for DishPro LNBs. Its only function is to provide 4 outputs, each with the ability of independently selecting one of its 3 inputs.

That's what I thought, but when I had the 508 connected to one output and the 360 connected to the other through the diseqc, I only got even TP's, so I went back to the legacy for 119 (508 on one side, diseqc port 1 on the other) with the dp LNB on 110, diseqc port 2, with diseqc out to the 360. All TP's work but of course I'm limited on the 360 tuner 2 (loop through) to whichever port tuner 1 is using.

So, I guess I need 2 - sw34, another diseqc and another cable run into the house, unless someone has another idea. How about a couple of separators - one combining outside and one separating inside - instead of the new cable run?

[s2byus]

Originally Posted by hillsmaverick

That's what I thought, but when I had the 508 connected to one output and the 360 connected to the other through the diseqc, I only got even TP's, so I went back to the legacy for 119 (508 on one side, diseqc port 1 on the other) with the dp LNB on 110, diseqc port 2, with diseqc out to the 360. All TP's work but of course I'm limited on the 360 tuner 2 (loop through) to whichever port tuner 1 is using.

So, I guess I need 2 - sw34, another diseqc and another cable run into the house, unless someone has another idea. How about a couple of separators - one combining outside and one separating inside - instead of the new cable run?

Separators/splitters can not be used to combine satellite signals as the LNBs not only provide signals to the receivers, but also get commands from the receivers.
Since the dp34 switch does not work with legacy LNBs, things would get more complcated with additional switches and cable. I therefore doubt on finding a reasonable solution with the existing LNBs.

The two options, both involving only two cable runs from the dish into the home for full feeding 3 tuner inputs would be:

1. Replacing both LNBs with a DPP Twin LNB for 110/119.The two cables from the DPP Twin LNB will run one to each receiver. A DPP Separator located behind the Elite receiver would feed both its tuners trough 2 short (1-2 foot) RG6 cables.

2. Replacing the Legacy LNB with a dishpro DP Dual (or Single) LNB, so you woud have two DP LNBs - one for 110 and one for 119. The two cables - one from each LNB would go into the home to 2 inputs (out of 3)of a dp34 switch. Two (out of 4) outputs of the dp34 switch would feed the 2 tuner inputs of the Elite and a third output would feed the 508 box.