D*TV question

[jam99]

Hi.

If say someone was interested in bringing a fully subbed DTV receiver (maybe a HDPVR unit) up to Canada, from say SW USA, what dish setup would be required to receive the most from a full bore package and to get the most out of the HDPVR receiver? SL 3 or SL 5? Would this receiver get any locals or any HD locals? How many cables would need to be run from the pan? Never plug in a phone line, correct?
Thanks.

[DishCharlie]

The HD channels are from the Ka sats at 99W and 102.8W. Many of the locals are carried on Ku 101W but are spotbeam dependent per locale. The 5-LNBF Slimline for 99-101-103-110-119 is for the US service area, but may be marginal for areas beyond. Be aware Ka sats require some fine tuning to aim as the beams are much narrower than Ku. One cable drop for each of 4 receivers, and do not provide a phone connection.

[Victor Hugo]

Originally Posted by jam99

Hi.

If say someone was interested in bringing a fully subbed DTV receiver (maybe a HDPVR unit) up to Canada, from say SW USA, what dish setup would be required to receive the most from a full bore package and to get the most out of the HDPVR receiver? SL 3 or SL 5? Would this receiver get any locals or any HD locals? How many cables would need to be run from the pan? Never plug in a phone line, correct?
Thanks.

Back to ABA family, enjoy your stay.

[jam99]

Originally Posted by DishCharlie

The HD channels are from the Ka sats at 99W and 102.8W. Many of the locals are carried on Ku 101W but are spotbeam dependent per locale. The 5-LNBF Slimline for 99-101-103-110-119 is for the US service area, but may be marginal for areas beyond. Be aware Ka sats require some fine tuning to aim as the beams are much narrower than Ku. One cable drop for each of 4 receivers, and do not provide a phone connection.

Thanks for the response....further clarification needed though.
I live 1/2 hour North of the US border but the recevier will be activated in SW US. Should I get the Slimline 3 or 5? If I get a HD DVR, don't I need to run 2 cables to it (one for each tuner)? Will I get locals from the closest US city to me? Will I get the big 4 (CBS, ABC, NBC and FOX) from a large center like New York or LA? If so, will I get them in HD?
Thanks.

[DishCharlie]

It's interesting that you describe distance in time as done in some other cultures. You must assume we all travel at the same rate. I have a DTV HD sub, but the receiver is a non-PVR single cable unit. A PVR unit may need 2 cables. What you may be able to receive wherever you intend to be cannot be surmised, especially outside the intended service area.

[jam99]

Ok, thanks for the info.
I guess I'll have to set it up and hope for the best.

[mxyplyx]

I use a dtv sub in Canada, I pay for a yearand use it in Arizona for 6 months and British Columbia for 6 months. I get the Spokane, Washington locals and the rest of the package I bought. Phoenix locals on the US. I do not use fta in the US since I am a foreigner down there and respect all laws of any foeign country I am in. Works great for me.

[tomcat01]

ha sorry bud but what you are doing is illegal still you are getting signals and are using them against the satellite laws in canada .. here is a news item

but this was very interesting

c/p
Direct TV Canada is a hot issue in most Direct TV Forums recently. I found an interesting article that related to this topic :P
I have post this article below for your review:-
"DIRECTV, Inc. is a unit of Hughes Electronics Corp. which is a division of General Motors or GMH on the New York stock exchange.
DirecTV Canada is currently not authorized to broadcast nor to distribute or sell their programming in Canada.
They nonetheless do sell their subscriptions to Canadians through the artifice of US post office boxes and Canadian satellite dealers with the US Corporation knowingly operating unlawfully.
It defrauds the Canadian government and the Canadian taxpayer out of MILLIONS of dollars annually! The RCMP, through instructions from Industry Canada, aid and abet this illicit scheme to defraud Canada own government by helping this DirecTV Canada by going after Canadian satellite dealers as Canadian court rulings have found.
"DirecTV has duped the RCMP", said Mr. Justice Craig in the provincial British Columbia in a court ruling on November 19, 1996 at page 130. In The Supreme Court of Nova Scotia, Mr. Justice Charles E. Haliburton stated” the illegal activity, indeed, is the activity of DirecTV Canada who are clandestinely selling their signals to Canadians by the artifice of post office boxes within the USA". (See ruling enclosed.) We knew that DirecTV Canada broadcasts its signal into Canada by claiming that the signals naturally” flow over” into Canada.
This is an outrageous untruth and satellites can send” spot beams” like ANIK satellites do and can be aimed to cover whatever territory is desired for coverage with a relatively small amount of “flow over".
Canada is the second largest country in the world, even larger in area than the United States and “flow over from the USA would cover less than 5% of Canada if this was desired.
DirecTV Canada broadcasts here to Canada on purpose and by design and its satellites were manufactured and designed to do so as it intended to become authorized here. A company called Power DirecTV, Inc. represented at the time by Mr. Joel Bell, was to be formed to sell the DirecTV signal into Canada and was later authorized by the CRTC (Decision CRTC 95-901, CRTC 95-902, CRTC 95-902-1, CRTC 95-908) from October 30, 1995 to distribute in Canada if it met certain conditions. The Ruling The applicant proposed to make a variety of licensed Canadian and authorized non-Canadian programming services available by satellite for direct reception by individuals.
Canadian programming services would be distributed using a Canadian satellite, specifically the Anik E-2 satellite operated by Telesat.
The non-Canadian programming services to be distributed on the proposed service would be delivered using high-powered U.S. satellites owned and operated by DirecTV Inc. (DirecTV Canada), pursuant to a service agreement between Power DirecTV and DirecTV (the agreement).
DirecTV Canada is a non-Canadian corporation active in the delivery of programming in the U.S. market. It should be noted that Power DirecTV requires the use of the Anik E-2 Canadian satellite in order for subscribers to simultaneously receive the Canadian signals as well as the U.S. signals received from the DirecTV Canada satellites. This company was to be partly owned by DirecTV, Inc. and Power Corp. The signal is broadcast to Canada not because the signals happened to flow over to Canada but rather they were sent here so that the DirecTV Canada signal could be marketed here.
As can be seen by the above extract from the CRTC ruling, DirecTV proposed to use its satellite to deliver the non-Canadian component of the signal from its three DSS satellites that were designed to do this from the start. One of the conditions of this license was that: The licensee is not permitted to offer a package of services containing only non-Canadian programming services; but PowerDirect and DirecTV Canada decided not to meet the CRTC requirements and gave up their right to distribute here after the time delays for their licenses lapsed.
This was widely believed to be because they would not meet the Canadian content regulations but no formal reason was given.
It is as though DirecTV Canada put their property in the “trash" at the roadside and abandoned it.
An easier route for DirecTV Canada to take was to break all Canadian regulations and laws by selling here in any case but not to comply and become authorized to do so.
In other words, to break Canadian law as it had been doing in the past, not meet any Canadian regulations and not be subject to and responsible for any taxation such as GST and PST by its unlawful actions.
It would need no new premises, no new Canadian employees and pay no Canadian income taxes. Some 500,000 to 800,000 Canadians own dishes to receive digital American satellite signals of DirecTV Canada, USSB (now purchased by DirecTV) and Echostar. Most of these people pay with Canadian credit cards that use a Canadian prefix.
A company like DirecTV Canada could sort these out of their database easily. In fact, the job would be quite trivial. If I wanted it could “sort out its database” of its Canadian customers in one or two days.
Additionally accounts are often paid with checks drawn in US funds on Canadian banks. If DirecTV Canada did a database search by credit card prefix, it would know who a large part of its Canadian customers are (with a small margin of error that could easily be corrected manually.)
Even after several Canadian judges have found that there is fairly good evidence that DirecTV sells unlawfully into Canada by the artifice of US postal boxes, DirecTV Canada continues to do this.
DirecTV Canada breaks Canadian law and defrauds the Canada government of all GST taxes, all PST taxes, and all income taxes that would accrue on the profits of these illicit sales.
Our RCMP seems to think this is just fine. It does this by seizing Canadian vendors here and acting in the interests of this unlawful US commercial interest (and not in the Canadian public interest) while the U.S. broadcasters knowingly break our laws but pretend not to be aware of it.
Further, DirecTV Canada and USSB and Echostar Dish network do not employ one Canadian, pay no employee deductions at source, no income taxes and leave not one cent of the costs on hundreds of millions of dollars in sales annually. Occasionally DirecTV de-authorized dealers by sending them a” It has come to our attention that you sell in Canada…"letter.
These are distributors that DirecTV Canada pay $300.00 US (or about $450.00 Canadian) to as a bounty or commission for selling a subscription. The company has the complete list of all the customers it has paid these “Canadian operating” distributors the $300.00 US for as it paid out the checks.
It, therefore, knows exactly who all the customers are (by card “barcode") and which Canadian distributors, who were subsequently cancelled, brought them into the 'fold'. It paid the Canadian distributors for each new client yet it does not cancel the vast majority of these Canadian customers it knows about. Why? These are paying customers even if they are known to be Canadians who are sold to by DirecTV Canada unlawfully.
DirecTV Canada likes paying customers and uses willful blindness to pretend it does not know they are Canadians.
The RCMP aid and abet these criminals by cooperating with them (against small sized Canadian vendors) instead of prosecuting these unlawful activities, which are done knowingly, that can be seen by any reasonable person.
Further these unlawful activities involve a loss of taxes to the Government of Canada on as much as $480,000,000.00 in sales annually. This has been going on since 1995. How? Of the approximately 500,000 US Satellite systems in Canada viewed by about 2,000,000 Canadians daily, the average subscription cost is around $50.00 US monthly (more if you believe the Canadian satellite supplier websites).
That's about $75.00 monthly Canadian. At about $75.00 Canadian monthly that amounts to about $900.00 annually per subscriber. At about 13.5% combined taxes (GST + PST in Quebec, for example) that amounts to over $120.00 per year in taxes per subscriber.
$120.00 times 500,000 systems amounts to about $60,000,000.00 annually on sales of about $480,000,000.00 yearly. So Canadian taxpayers are being defrauded and cheated out of taxes on about FIVE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS every year by these DirecTV Canada interests.
Remember that General Motors is the owner of the company who does a large part of this. They can be penalized, as they own enormous assets Canada.
That $60,000,000.00 might help our health care or many other possible programs in Canada and that does not include the hundreds of million dollars in expenses, income taxes and other monies that would be spent in Canada if these companies followed Canada laws.
Can Canadians afford to give up taxes on a half billion dollars or more per year to these companies who operate unlawfully and have our own RCMP help them and ignore this colossal rip-off. Recently in November 1998 the RCMP raided 5 or 6 small businesses in Quebec whose combined business volume is less than $10,000,000 annually and who employ Canadians and pay taxes in this country.
Yet the RCMP assists and has expert witnesses from NDC who make cards for DirecTV Canada when there is mixed jurisprudence on this. It is quite clear that if Canadian viewers cannot be prohibited from watching cross-border broadcasts under section 2B of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, then DirecTV Canada has no possibility of losing any money in an area where it has no authorization to sell.
What is the interest of DirecTV Canada and why does it finance RCMP investigations??? The only explanation is to protect its illicit Canadian revenues. Judges have determined that this commercial giant, DirecTV Canada, finances the RCMP in part in these investigations. Paul Palango's recent book about the RCMP, entitled “The Last Guardians", deals with how the RCMP has gone from being the impartial, neutral arbiter of criminal law to being a defender of vested financial interests. The RCMP may pepper spray Canadian citizens (that would be using a prohibited weapon if done by a citizen like you or I). The RCMP may blow up buildings unlawfully, film inside private houses and release that to the press (a criminal offence).
The RCMP may generally act like cowboys in the opinion of some Canadians. However, at some point, the citizens will get fed up with this outrageous lawlessness and wonder why the supposed “good guys” act like common criminals so often. Perhaps if enough of us ask the question, some Canadian politician or a different political party, such as the REFORM PARTY, in power in Canada will give us an answer and cause the unlawfulness to stop. Currently this brings the entire law enforcement system (and to some Canadians the entire judicial system) into total disrepute. When that happens it's called anarchy and the entire system can break down.
We are certainly not there yet but we are moving speedily in that direction. For the least it's time for political change as perhaps a new, different party such as the REFORM party forming a government can correct this or at least improve on it.
Lawlessness is the domain of criminals and should not be that of RCMP actions. Who is in charge of these people who so often act as criminals??? In fact, right now its just sort of a half-serious joke but when the major newspapers begin to show cartoons like these on the editorial page, you know its becoming mainstream. Where there is this much smoke, there is bound to be some fire.
This suggestion is quite clear to most.
Mr. Keith Spicer, ex-Chairman of the CRTC, said on January 17, 1995 that "the western world has spent 40 years telling the Russians that it was immoral to block broadcasts. We're certainly not going to start doing that in Canada.
Canadians are a free people, they should act freely." But that is exactly what the RCMP and Industry Canada are currently doing, prohibiting the viewing of American television by Canadians. Yet under our "Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms" this cannot be prohibited.
The Canadian government is a signatory of the United Nations’ “THE INTERNATIONAL COVENANT ON CIVIL AND POLITICAL RIGHTS (ICCPR)"and reports that this is used to help interpret our Charter. Article 19 of the Covenant, which relates to article 2b of our Charter, states: Article 19 1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference. 2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice. 3. The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary: (a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others; (b) For the protection of national security or of public order (order public), or of public health or morals. It is obvious that this permits Canadians to “seek, receive information of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, through any media of his choice” so long as this is not provided by law AND is necessary.
The law prohibits the depriving of lawful revenue from an authorized Canadian distributor and, as DirecTV gave up this right, there is no such person and item (a) cannot apply. DirecTV have no claim on revenue from this signal when it falls on Canadian territory, having abandoned this right. The covenant assists in the interpretation of Article 2b of our Canadian Charter and makes clear in law the statement of the ex-Chairman of the CRTC, Mr. Keith Spicer.
It is truly a shame that the RCMP and Industry Canada are currently trying to deprive Canadians of this right by seizing their property and criminalizing all 1.3 million dish owners in Canada that they have deemed illegal and are able to receive encrypted US signals, even when they pay for them through DirecTV's illegal actions.
Canadians are a free people and we need the REFORM party to keep it that way. That “fresh vision for Canada” has just become a necessity for some three million Canadian voters and satellite dish viewers. The protectionist policies of John Manley and Sheila Copps are destroying the satellite industry in Canada under the guise of "culture" and are removing the “freedom of expression” of Canadian voters in order to protect the monopolists such a Bell ExpressVu and Starchoice."

[mxyplyx]

Tomcat101: Thankyou for the update, but if you read my post I said I do not break the law in the US, since I am a Canadian. Now what I do in Canda as far as the law is concerned is a whole other matter.
Mxyplyx

[tomcat01]

Originally Posted by mxyplyx

I use a dtv sub in Canada, I pay for a yearand use it in Arizona for 6 months and British Columbia for 6 months. I get the Spokane, Washington locals and the rest of the package I bought. Phoenix locals on the US. I do not use fta in the US since I am a foreigner down there and respect all laws of any foeign country I am in. Works great for me.

i am not here to judge you bud if you want to that is your choice but you say you use it in arizona for 6 months then you say you do not use it in the us .. i do not care but all i am saying is thet it is not legal in canada not for you but for others here to read so they can understand too that it is not legal anytime that you use it as a canadian you are breaking crtc regulations here in canada LOL(kinda likefta i guess ) but we own the equipment .. you are using there equipment but trust me even if you buy it they have the rights to it google it .. either way it is a grey area about recievering the signals .. i know people who do it too there are signs all over where i live in canada that say dtv for cheap subs etc.. thats is how grey it is up here they have there phone numbers and all on the sign so if it was illegal then why do we have all trhe info about it everywhere ?????? who knows ..

just things to think about for people here ..

[tomcat01]

Bill C-2, which died in the House of Commons when the 2004
election was called, attempted to entrench in legislation a Supreme Court ruling from
2002 prohibiting unauthorized foreign satellite signal reception in Canada. The Supreme
Court ruling was deemed unconstitutional under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms by a
Quebec lower court in 2004, only to see that decision overturned in Quebec higher courts
a year later. With no further legal appeals on the horizon, the basement and garage
satellite dish vendors have by and large since closed their doors.

[tomcat01]

The grey satellite market is not ‘piracy’ per se, people are paying for the services
they receive (the key dividing point from the black market); however, that money is not
going to the Canadian companies, Bell ExpressVu (now Bell TV) and Star Choice
(owned by Shaw), who have paid for exclusive rights to the Canadian airspace.
Technology

[tomcat01]

i have had this discussion before it is you decision and i am sorry i am not saying you are breaking the law .. i am posting now laws from the candian supreme courts it is a law not to recieve any signal rather than a canadian sat signal in canada

[tomcat01]

**** it guy i am breaking the law LOL oh well maybe if they stopped stealing all my money for 40 channels at 100.00 a month and have better programming then maybe people would not mind paying for subs and not worry about fta right

1200.00 min for a sub a year plus more if you want HD plus rent the reciever at 4 bucks a tv plus if you want a pvr it is another 5 bucks LOL is that not funny look at all the extra charges

just my opinion

[mxyplyx]

Tomcat01: I own a house in Arizona, I have a phone in Arizona and I have a US bank account and I order direct tv for a year. Direct tv has my US address, phone number and bank account number only. I do bring a DTV receiver up to Canada and I use it illegally. All I am saying is I would not pirate tv in the US because I am not a US citizen. I do use a fta receiver and a DTV receiver in Canada.

[tomcat01]

i know that bud i have several friends that do the exact same thing they actually have a condo in mesa i am not on you bud i would do it too if i lived down there 6 months .. please don't feel you have to explain anything to me .. you are good with me .. i just wanted others who think that they get a sub up here from dtv that they are legal because they pay for it well they are not

thats it !!
thanks mxyplyx

[jam99]

Tomcat:

I hear you loud and clear. It's not 100% "legal" but it's one of those things that is not exactly something that the authorities do anything about or care about for that matter. IMO to compare this to a FTA box modded to decrypt Charlie is like comparing apples to oranges. This D*TV box is legitimately subbed in the USA, much like mxyplyx's, and brought up to Canada to be able to receive TV that's actually worth paying for. I still sub to BEV but I'm sick and tired of giving them $70/month for what they offer. I miss my American lineup that my Viewsat used to provide and am willing to pay to get it back. I see no fix in the in the near/far future for my VS and instead of dealing with what the CRTC "makes" me watch, I'm circumventing the "rules" and paying for a service that's worth paying for. Morally? Who cares.

mxyplyx:

Do you use a Slimline 3 or 5?

[mxyplyx]

Lam 99: I have a slimeline 3 in both Arizona and up here. Oval dish with three dual lnb's. I pay $35/month for over 200 channels. I got hooked on DTV during the HU card days.
Mxyply

[jam99]

mxyplyx:

I hear you....I've missed D*TV ever since the HU went down.
Do you know if there are any channels that you don't get because you use the 3 LNB Slimline as opposed to the 5 LNB Slimline? I have the old 18" pan and need to get a new one and need to know which one is better for me. Thanks.