Warning to Viewsat Owners!!!

[Sky_Pilot]

I would also avoid "buyback" programs as the savings are minimal and it increases your risk.

[EHG]

My personal belief is that the plaintiff's (echo star et all) are just trying to gather evidence proving that a certain percentage of these boxes are being used illegally by end users and in addition somehow trying to tie manufacturers and/or distributors of viewsat to this illegal use of their product.

First of all they would have to prove that Viewsat had in some manner assisted those who create these so called 3rd party bin files. I would imagine that Viewsat goes to extraordinary lengths to maintain a legal arms length distance from any 3rd party coders. I am quite willing to bet that these coders are not on the viewsat payroll.

Next they would have to prove that the manufacturers of these boxes are purposely making them for users who pirate echostar's signals and that the factory chip and programming could be produced so that these boxes could only get true fta programming, still be updated as necessary and not be utilized to obtain illegal (pirated) signals.

Someone else will have to address this as I do not have the technical knowledge to state an opinion on this.

REMEMBER This is a civil case it is not a CRIMINAL case against Viewsat.

If you sent in a box to Viewsat and they removed the chip and gathered the information as the court stated on the owners etc etc - There is no way in hell that you could be criminally prosecuted for the information on a chip that was not in your possession when it was removed from a box you owned.

IMHO The very worst that could happen as long as this case remains a Civil Case is that echostar might use the information gathered to try to intimidate those whose chips were removed and contained 3rd party bins to either submit to a sworn deposition or perhaps might subpoena them to court. Again IMHO echostar is on a fishing expedition (trying to gather evidence by whatever means) at the moment.

I wouldn't sweat it that much again as long as this is a civil case. However If you have returned a unit to viewsat that contained a 3rd party bin file after the dates specified by the court I think I would be somewhat cautious about having in my possession a unit with 3rd party bins in it.

As to the above cautious to me would be to definitely keep track of the court case as it proceeds and see what the court may order and what direction it takes. Echostar representatives legal or otherwise do not have the power to obtain a search warrant or enter your home uninvited. The only way that would occur is if the court issued search warrants at the request of a Federal Law Enforcement agency or a federal agency granted the power to have a court issue a Search warrant. A very unlikely scenario at this stage of the game.

Even if it occurred the chances of winning the case even using a court appointed defense attorney (if you cannot afford a private attorney) are excellent again in my opinion and I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY. However if the outcome was negative and found guilty usually on a first offense of this type the penalty would be a small fine and probation. I would though recommend that if you have a pvr unit you do have a hard disk containing gigs of downloaded content (not a wise thing to have around if you are in this somewhat compromising position of having send your unit to Viewsat subsequent to September 22, 2008.

Again NOT AN ATTORNEY perhaps one of the ABAdss members who is a member of the bar might in a manner that they feel legally comfortable with offer their opinion on the info from this thread.

[EHG]

Want to add one more thing to my post above. In the couple of years that i have been participating in this hobby I believe I have read about only one or perhaps two individuals being prosecuted for piracy of Sat signals. If I remember correctly one did or was doing something incredibly stupid in order to put themselves in that situation I just don't remember the actual facts so could be wrong there.

Perhaps one or more of the moderators who have been around much longer then I have might have further information as to their knowledge of end users of these FTA receivers being prosecuted for piracy.

[SoDarkTheCon]

Originally Posted by EHG

Want to add one more thing to my post above. In the couple of years that i have been participating in this hobby I believe I have read about only one or perhaps two individuals being prosecuted for piracy of Sat signals. If I remember correctly one did or was doing something incredibly stupid in order to put themselves in that situation I just don't remember the actual facts so could be wrong there.

Perhaps one or more of the moderators who have been around much longer then I have might have further information as to their knowledge of end users of these FTA receivers being prosecuted for piracy.

A man and his wife were arrested, based on there own stupidity though. They called the cops to there house and forgot to hide the tons of plastic and provider receiver equipment. The dude is serving 5 i think and the lady 2. This was in Toronto, Canada...

[EHG]

Originally Posted by SoDarkTheCon

A man and his wife were arrested, based on there own stupidity though. They called the cops to there house and forgot to hide the tons of plastic and provider receiver equipment. The dude is serving 5 i think and the lady 2. This was in Toronto, Canada...

They say the first thing to go is memory - oh oh

Anyway I think I read a thread here or perhaps elsewhere about someone or a couple in either Florida or Arizona and seems that they also did something incredibly stupid although can't say for sure I think it was they did something like have the DN or DTV people out to remove their equipment while they had their new FTA stuff up and running with DN or DTV ON THE TV!

Other then the recent Viewsat situation and even with that anyone who participates in this hobby should KNOW that by putting in a 3rd party file into an FTA receiver of any brand they are INVALIDATING THEIR WARRENTY. VIRTUALLY EVERY RECEIVER I'VE PURCHASED (4 DIFFERENT BRANDS) INDICATE EITHER ON THE ACTUAL PACKING BOX or in the manual that comes with the receiver or on the warranty card or all of them plainly states 3 rd party files invalidate the warranty.

Don't know how much of a 3rd party bin file is truly ERASED when the factory default is reinstalled perhaps someone here does know or can advice on that. Of course a unit that drops dead totally one would not be able to install the factory default etc - in which case I would not even consider returning it to the factory -

ANYWAY - The chances of being prosecuted for piracy or whatever they officially charge soneone with pirating an encrypted Sat Signal is probably
1 in 5 million or so considering how many have modified fta boxes and how many have been prosecuted. UP TO NOW -

We must keep in mind that the more that participate in this hobby and I'm sure the participants have grown exponentially in the past 2 or 3 years, the more aggressive Charlie and his buddy up North in Canada are going to get about this whole thing - It's all about big business and big bucks
Charlie (echostar) NET EARNINGS I believe were THREE QUARTERS of a BILLION dollars in 2007 yep thats Seven Hundred and Fifty Million Dollars or there abouts

Then you have the manufacturers of these FTA boxes and were talking pretty big bucks there also. They are all out for MARKET SHARE against each other and the bucks must be big for Viewsat to even fight this case as each of those lawyers that they have representing them is probably clocking $300 or $400 AN HOUR.

[Knee Dragger]

I for one would not be too surprised if charlie is making almost all boxes by what ever name.........that is what they do. they just hide it by a large numbers of ficticious companies.........charlie may even also pay the coders the same way. (just to keep you hooked like a drug.) the few court cases are to subdue any suspicions, like my guess above.

[Mikemall]

Originally Posted by Knee Dragger

I for one would not be too surprised if charlie is making almost all boxes by what ever name.........that is what they do. they just hide it by a large numbers of ficticious companies.........charlie may even also pay the coders the same way. (just to keep you hooked like a drug.) the few court cases are to subdue any suspicions, like my guess above.

How would this be in their interest?

You really think they would like to get a one time small payment instead of a monthly sub fee?

I'm not following your train of thought on this

[Knee Dragger]

Originally Posted by Mikemall

How would this be in their interest?
well when N3 comes along, we may all need new boxes right?

You really think they would like to get a one time small payment instead of a monthly sub fee?

I'm not following your train of thought on this

also, how many antennas-dishes do they sell?

[Mikemall]

I've never given conspiracy theories much credence, unless the mafia is involved.
Someone always spills the beans.

[EHG]

Originally Posted by Knee Dragger

also, how many antennas-dishes do they sell?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

However if you were to take ALL the sales of FTA boxes from ALL the manufacturers and added to that total ALL the accessories such as dishes, LNBs, etc. the TOTAL $ amount would still be pretty much CHUMP CHANGE compared to the NET combined income of DN and BELL.

Your comparing millions to BILLIONS and I'd say that DN and BELL are probably losing on the average about $700 to $800 per year per user of these boxes. Doesn't make sense to go for a $100 or $200 one time sale in order to lose three or four or more times that amount over the course of a year.

[Knee Dragger]

do not forget those sold in Europe too. d**h sells a lot there too.

[papodecarlo]

Thanks, does this affect seesat users?

[Knee Dragger]

I would recommend anyone not to send any makers box back unless you are sure
every piece of info is removed and the original files reinstalled.
if you are not sure we may read about in the forum some day.

[cbvanb]

I see a lot of parallels here to the situation with music downloads (MP3) and the music industry battle of the past few years. The music industry didn't necessarily care about prosecuting anyone, they wanted MONEY. They may have provided the model for this lawsuit against Viewsat. Once they get a court order saying they have a right to collect from anyone who used their signal they have essentially won, and they will make examples out of everyone they can get their hands on. Perhaps you remember the lady 8 months ago who downloaded three (that's 3) songs from a pirate site and received a judgement against her for over $42,000? If I had a Viewsat that went down I would trash it and buy something new. Charlie is going to come after you if he can, count on it.

[originalfacsimi]

If we think about this if "you" was a sat provider!!!!!!!!!

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

[Meme127]

I just bought 3 new viewsats about 3 months ago. I don't know where I am pointed at the moment or what is going on so if they come to my door they better have a warrent and then DN better stop there transmissions going over my property .. Seems I kind of think I live in a free country but then that is a question I keep asking. true free to Air is still Free or so I am told Am I right???

[bill of oz]

Originally Posted by Meme127

true free to Air is still Free or so I am told Am I right???

yes you are right, but DN is NOT true FTA

[Meme127]

I know KN isn't fta. But I pay for DN and I like the FTA for what it is. I get a kick out of just moving the dish to see what I do or don't get. Nice hobby keeps my brain working and I seem to lose a lot of weight when I am up and down the latter a million times. LOL
All joking aside We may all be watching true FTA soon.

[sly]

dont know if the newbies know but the old timers know if box dies and you cant fix it at home it becomes a door stop and you get the next new thing out there, the money spent for a box is small, they are made to throw away and they pay for themselvs in a month or two in most cases the hd boxs a little longer. remember this is just a hobbie

[bill of oz]

All joking aside We may all be watching true FTA soon.

I consider this a good thing, a lot of people probably hate me for this comment, but I'm glad nag3 is coming, or I should say here,

This might encourage more people to get into the true FTA and see everything they have been missing,

It is amazing how fast you forget all about the providers when you start watching other satellites (FTA),

I have already seen this coming sundays season finale of "the amazing race"