Join ABADSS Now

ABA DSS - Free to Air Satellite TV Community > Main > FTA News & Announcements » nagravision 3(N3)what is it?-progress reports-channel outage list & more

Registration is FAST, PRIVATE, and SECURE. Join our community today!

Download Our Free Toolbar

FTA News & Announcements Discuss topics in the news that relate to FTA.

Register Now for FREE!
Our records show you have not yet registered to our forums. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
 
Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

  I agree to forum rules 

Reply
Old October 23rd, 2008   #1 (permalink)
Super Moderator
 
arboristman's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ABADSS.COM
Posts: 19,631
Credits: 22,068.58
Thanks: 4,732
Thanked 17,682 Times in 6,667 Posts
N3 Fix: [July 19th, 2009] - Private
nagravision 3(N3)what is it?-progress reports-channel outage list & more

ok,well its time for this sticky for sure.so here we go.

when will we have fixes?
we do not know.nor will know, until they are posted.



first.what is nagravision 3 (nagra 3/N3 for short) ?
nagravision is an encryption method used by both dn and bev satellite providers.nagravision 3 is a new version of encryption method used.
this locks and secures their channels so that only subscribers who have authorization can view.(those who pay them monthly of course).

nagravision 1 and nagravision 2 (nagra 1 & nagra 2) have been compromised and exploited,allowing unauthorized access via hardware and or software to view their channels.naturally,when this happens,the providers must find a way to lock their signals again,if only as a way to inconvenience you momentarily,in hopes you find an easier way.(just pay them monthly).
remember,if no one payed for the birds in the sky,you wouldn't be watching them.its always a very very good idea to pay for their services.if only for a basic subscription.and no,haha,i don't work for them of course.but we need to understand that things must be paid for somehow,and its good to do our part.kinda like people to people sharing services on the net.it simply wouldn't work if all we did was download and not share(also known as seeding).
yeah, i know we hate to hear this side of things,but we all know it to be so.

anyway,now with the basics of how it works out of the way.what about new software?
will nagra 3 files be out?
no one knows this information besides the coders.even then,they will/may not disclose to much info before hand.


if it does get cracked,how long will it take?
again,the same thing applies.we simply do not know.

we do know however,the switchover from nagra 1 to nagra 2 was only a matter of a short period of time before it was comprised.but this may not be as easy as last time either.only skilled coding teams will know what it takes.
most of the upper/common coders,or spokesman's for them have already stated that they are working on it.


what channels have already switched over to nagra 3,thus resulting in a black screen?

bev is currently making the switch now,shutting off the lights to nagra 2 and only using nagra 3 as their encryption method.
many channels such as HD and some premium movie channels on bev have been reported down across the net.its only a matter of time before bev is completely dark.dn will follow latter as well,they have to be sure all their subscribers receive their new access cards first.

remember,there is a whole sky up there full of channels that in many cases are free and clear,using 0% encryption.that's why your receivers are 100% legal.many of which are feeds and not reported on sites.many of them are commercial free as well(these are known as "clean feeds").there truly is more up there than you can find posted.and yes lol much more than just religious and ethnic programming.oh yes,some in high definition as well mainly on C band.
of course i only recommend buying and using your fta receivers for their intended use,and any other information as always is for educational use only.

so in short.dark days ahead.and only coders releasing new software for nagra 3 will turn the lights back on.


feel free to ask your questions,but remember,abadss nor its staff is connected in anyway to 3rd party coding teams,so we may not know the answer to your particular question.

i can answer this one first again:

when will we have fixes?
we do not know.nor will know, until they are posted.


we thank you for your patience.


channels reported down due to N3 list:
(last updated 4/24/09)

bev (82w/91w)- ALL DOWN.

dn(72.5 & 77(e8) new birds started with n3 only) 77(e4) ALL DOWN.

dn (61.5/110/118/119/121/129/148)-
internationals down.
adult down.
some Latino down.(expect the rest to follow soon)
some high definition down.(expect the rest to follow soon)

(yes all the rest will soon follow.will keep updated as they fall off)






only some iks based receivers have working channels switched to the new n3 encryption,and, or in testing stages.
__________________
Latest FTA News --- ABAdss Blog


SV-HD8000-1080i-MULTIMEDIA-ATSC-DVR-Version2
S550 ''''''7100usb
600s premium '''mini pvr
X-1'''''''wintv-pvr-150

lost? click here to learn how to navigate abadss.com

are you a live support member?
receive top priority tech support here!


~~~Welcome To ABAdss,The Friendliest FTA Support Site On The Net!~~~The ABAdss Staff Wish You A Happy Free To Air Experience~~~advanced testers have multiple dishes,multiple lnbs,or a large dish with motor,for loads of unscrambled fta tv all the time.explore the sky.you never know what your going to see next.free legal tv from outer space!~~~

Last edited by arboristman; April 25th, 2009 at 12:09 AM..
arboristman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 329 Users Say Thank You to arboristman For This Useful Post:
1rocco1 (March 8th, 2009), 20072007 (October 31st, 2008), abomb (April 7th, 2009), acehighone (November 9th, 2008), adidas27 (November 13th, 2008), agsawdoff1 (August 13th, 2009), ajtonga (July 30th, 2009), alexica85 (May 7th, 2009), andresxp3 (October 27th, 2008), andyriddell (October 29th, 2008), annony (October 24th, 2008), araven100 (May 29th, 2009), Aricia (November 9th, 2008), asg (October 24th, 2008), Askavenger (3 Weeks Ago), azmouse (May 11th, 2009), baby dawkins (November 9th, 2008), Backatu (October 24th, 2008), basic122 (November 10th, 2008), basswacka (November 6th, 2008), bbeckham (June 18th, 2009), bbmfic (November 6th, 2008), beckon77 (May 13th, 2009), benitoh (May 24th, 2009), beob lorf (November 13th, 2008), bigc57 (June 9th, 2009), bikerman2_98 (November 12th, 2008), billy829 (November 6th, 2008), bimmer1020 (October 31st, 2008), bitonbita (August 14th, 2009), blackbart (November 4th, 2008), blacktberd (November 6th, 2008), blackwolf221 (November 14th, 2008), blakber (October 29th, 2008), Bleedingkansas (April 27th, 2009), boats1980 (May 1st, 2009), bolt555 (February 21st, 2009), Bomanala (October 23rd, 2008), booger5 (April 27th, 2009), boomer62 (October 30th, 2008), brian3180 (November 1st, 2008), brown22 (October 30th, 2008), budbear2005 (February 23rd, 2009), burn5012 (March 27th, 2009), byefamily (July 27th, 2009), Captain Tom (April 7th, 2009), casalvito (May 5th, 2009), cata3ca (October 31st, 2008), cbachman (November 7th, 2008), chiswood (October 24th, 2008), chuito09 (May 1st, 2009), cisco123 (November 14th, 2008), conazo (October 24th, 2008), cristi.d (November 18th, 2008), cruiser69 (April 15th, 2009), Cyberhd (October 29th, 2008), d3s0n3 (February 19th, 2009), dal bilkoski (October 24th, 2008), Dan1mel (June 22nd, 2009), dangeruss (October 25th, 2008), DarrylM (October 31st, 2008), dashriprok (November 5th, 2008), davis_68 (November 6th, 2008), dcwred (May 5th, 2009), DDinMN (September 13th, 2009), dean_c72002 (April 10th, 2009), denise8934 (April 7th, 2009), desiiboy (June 12th, 2009), djfrankieb (October 30th, 2008), dlll (April 10th, 2009), DLung (November 5th, 2008), dmcdonaldm (June 3rd, 2009), dmfan12 (October 24th, 2008), docs23t (December 11th, 2008), DOCTOR JAY (November 1st, 2008), dougam@telus.ne (May 3rd, 2009), DUDEMAN (February 22nd, 2009), dumbo (April 24th, 2009), dvdnewone (November 12th, 2008), Dziadz (November 5th, 2008), ehp (November 3rd, 2008), elkain (February 19th, 2009), emmator (November 8th, 2008), esiok240 (November 10th, 2008), every1sfavspick (April 9th, 2009), ezee2 (July 13th, 2009), fahector (April 29th, 2009), fantamas (November 6th, 2008), faridqureshi (March 6th, 2009), fernindan (November 1st, 2008), fisherrr (November 5th, 2008), fishinfool (January 27th, 2009), floyd (November 5th, 2008), flx2050 (November 6th, 2008), footpain (May 7th, 2009), fordman01 (October 24th, 2008), forrestgump (October 29th, 2008), fossil112 (October 24th, 2008), FrankBokros (October 24th, 2008), fredé (November 18th, 2008), fredmcg (October 24th, 2008), frogger321 (June 22nd, 2009), frostybear (November 5th, 2008), frostynugget (May 4th, 2009), fta sam (March 30th, 2009), ftaclimber (May 10th, 2009), ftanewbee (August 7th, 2009), FTW w FTA (November 6th, 2008), fuzzywuzzy40 (October 31st, 2008), gatocaribe (October 29th, 2008), gatorboy914 (June 22nd, 2009), geno23 (April 8th, 2009), geojr (March 25th, 2009), gfm (November 8th, 2008), Ghengis2 (January 9th, 2009), Gimpy13 (October 25th, 2008), glabonte (November 6th, 2008), glolight (November 4th, 2008), GOLDJRG44 (October 31st, 2008), Goldlab (November 3rd, 2008), gonzolive (April 12th, 2009), Gordon James (November 10th, 2008), Gozy (October 31st, 2008), GQS (October 28th, 2008), gsgorveatt (November 6th, 2008), happytraveller (February 23rd, 2009), HaRaZoo (December 12th, 2008), heaterman59 (April 16th, 2009), hfajardoe1 (April 13th, 2009), Hntrdane (November 13th, 2008), hokepoke (May 5th, 2009), Homebrew627 (November 6th, 2008), hondap (April 10th, 2009), hooliganI32 (November 2nd, 2008), hotrod3815 (November 8th, 2008), hownikon (April 29th, 2009), hunter50 (April 15th, 2009), iamviolet (April 9th, 2009), Ian Williams (March 7th, 2009), imperialquartz (October 25th, 2008), InstrumentTech (November 5th, 2008), jackass44 (November 8th, 2008), janeey (April 12th, 2009), jaycool (October 25th, 2008), jayjay1972 (October 24th, 2008), jazric (April 26th, 2009), jd1 (February 23rd, 2009), JessFTA (November 6th, 2008), jevero (May 5th, 2009), jibara2003 (October 29th, 2008), jigjag (October 30th, 2008), jimmasso (October 29th, 2008), jimow (July 16th, 2009), joeana (November 13th, 2008), joeeking (November 4th, 2008), joe_nobrega (October 27th, 2008), john420 (December 28th, 2008), JOHNSMITHY1 (April 4th, 2009), jokeriswylde (November 5th, 2008), jordan6543 (April 16th, 2009), joro12 (October 27th, 2008), joson (October 24th, 2008), just4ufolks (December 7th, 2008), justus92264 (November 8th, 2008), kapitan (October 25th, 2008), kiko 41 (November 18th, 2008), Killerbee06 (November 4th, 2008), kino007 (December 6th, 2008), klein3 (October 29th, 2008), kris-51 (August 7th, 2009), lakers1one (October 25th, 2008), lakerunrs (December 6th, 2008), Landscapeman (October 24th, 2008), lawnking34 (December 11th, 2008), leeshellt2 (March 27th, 2009), leo25 (November 2nd, 2008), lesallen (November 20th, 2008), lgscooter (April 10th, 2009), Limeyde (November 2nd, 2008), lmick (October 24th, 2008), lordizzy (April 17th, 2009), louis06 (October 24th, 2008), luckylady7747 (October 29th, 2008), lunchmeat (May 9th, 2009), machinero (April 25th, 2009), madmudder (March 12th, 2009), mahanguru (October 29th, 2008), maleab (April 25th, 2009), mando0219 (February 27th, 2009), marcone9 (March 26th, 2009), marianne (October 29th, 2008), Marinerman (November 9th, 2008), markymark121 (November 4th, 2008), marty napier (October 29th, 2008), marv0007 (October 25th, 2008), masterq1104 (November 13th, 2008), matt1228 (October 24th, 2008), Maurto (November 11th, 2008), mccorda21 (November 6th, 2008), Meme127 (May 8th, 2009), metalmentor (October 29th, 2008), mexicokevin (December 6th, 2008), MgGibson2 (November 4th, 2008), midnight max (November 6th, 2008), milanpatel1 (November 7th, 2008), mitaeso (November 5th, 2008), modems (April 25th, 2009), MOE23 (October 25th, 2008), monte carlo ss (April 9th, 2009), moosey#2 (November 9th, 2008), morebeer (November 9th, 2008), mothugsta (July 17th, 2009), mred423 (October 25th, 2008), mrumbolt (November 4th, 2008), mugroso (October 27th, 2008), nalagufi (October 27th, 2008), nascaron (May 7th, 2009), navidjan (May 11th, 2009), NeedMyMeds (November 7th, 2008), NEOSTRADA (March 25th, 2009), nile3504 (November 13th, 2008), ni_bbs (November 4th, 2008), norbert99 (November 12th, 2008), NYC172 (May 1st, 2009), obrutkcir (November 13th, 2008), ob_pm (October 29th, 2008), octubre17 (May 27th, 2009), out4trout (November 5th, 2008), Outlaw'd (November 15th, 2008), paine48 (April 26th, 2009), painterguy14 (October 23rd, 2008), palomolinares (May 27th, 2009), pansat2700auser (February 27th, 2009), patch (November 3rd, 2008), pchurch (November 5th, 2008), phylissb (November 11th, 2008), Pink Flo (October 24th, 2008), polo76 (October 27th, 2008), polska (June 11th, 2009), poly01 (April 6th, 2009), poolshark12 (April 9th, 2009), pressplay (November 9th, 2008), psmfg (March 8th, 2009), qdog (November 8th, 2008), radtech (October 29th, 2008), Raewa58 (November 5th, 2008), ramblin2208 (November 6th, 2008), rd1959jlm (March 6th, 2009), reallynewatthis (November 7th, 2008), RealStar (October 31st, 2008), redmomma64 (April 25th, 2009), RG-1 (November 5th, 2008), RichiRay (March 17th, 2009), riley (January 9th, 2009), roscoep (December 5th, 2008), rugby39 (April 3rd, 2009), rvencereid (July 16th, 2009), rvmurray (May 1st, 2009), rvt22 (November 6th, 2008), samdcx (November 7th, 2008), samyone (March 6th, 2009), SatelliteJunkie (October 31st, 2008), sawdy (November 6th, 2008), scotbus (November 13th, 2008), screech (November 5th, 2008), SEARAY98 (October 27th, 2008), sellor (November 11th, 2008), sharpasnails (November 18th, 2008), silver fox 8 (November 8th, 2008), Skillz (April 10th, 2009), skul.nbones (February 22nd, 2009), skypix (April 25th, 2009), skytramp (November 11th, 2008), slowboy (October 29th, 2008), smaggar (March 5th, 2009), snakebite (October 24th, 2008), sniper22x (November 7th, 2008), snoway123 (November 7th, 2008), solying (May 10th, 2009), soptik (November 10th, 2008), soulman13 (November 6th, 2008), sourn (May 10th, 2009), sparky6 (November 7th, 2008), spidermann (November 5th, 2008), steffi (November 11th, 2008), stevey6 (November 9th, 2008), suecor (November 13th, 2008), tag46_ca (October 30th, 2008), tamsal (October 29th, 2008), tawnyjo (April 8th, 2009), tb1971 (October 27th, 2008), tejano (October 25th, 2008), Teknix38 (April 24th, 2009), terpfan (April 10th, 2009), thecrowe (May 8th, 2009), thegoodness (October 24th, 2008), tls563 (November 19th, 2008), toe (November 10th, 2008), tomcat69 (November 6th, 2008), tomh1319 (April 15th, 2009), tonythechamp (November 8th, 2008), TOO SLIM (July 16th, 2009), traboulsee (October 29th, 2008), Tradewinds11 (April 19th, 2009), transon (November 8th, 2008), tuff (April 28th, 2009), turbo1 (November 18th, 2008), unjevito (March 25th, 2009), vashira (November 4th, 2008), vespariiii (November 12th, 2008), Victor Hugo (March 5th, 2009), vnsat321 (November 5th, 2008), vtoskov (October 28th, 2008), wattywat2003 (November 4th, 2008), wharutnev (March 26th, 2009), wildthing1 (May 6th, 2009), William B (April 14th, 2009), willlowbear (November 10th, 2008), windstar786 (November 17th, 2008), winky1 (November 11th, 2008), wishpalfrey (February 22nd, 2009), wolfe (February 20th, 2009), woowee (January 31st, 2009), wtien1968 (November 7th, 2008), yamiguel (March 5th, 2009), youniverso (November 7th, 2008), z52vette (November 1st, 2008), zekester (October 29th, 2008), zurcjose (April 28th, 2009)
Old October 24th, 2008   #2 (permalink)
Veteran Abadss Member
 
cisco123's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: far-far-away in texas
Posts: 6,772
Credits: 1,319.85
Thanks: 2,483
Thanked 4,480 Times in 2,073 Posts
N3 Fix Beer Hamburger
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

that is right to the point.and every one needs to read this for a better understanding .
..............thanks arb.
__________________
testing what i can when i can.


cisco123 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to cisco123 For This Useful Post:
bbmfic (September 30th, 2009), chuito09 (May 1st, 2009), costanzo9999 (April 18th, 2009), dmfan12 (October 24th, 2008), fredé (November 18th, 2008), geojr (March 25th, 2009), george1950 (May 1st, 2009), ggm58 (April 24th, 2009), Gimpy13 (October 25th, 2008), justaskmikey53 (November 13th, 2008), marianne (November 7th, 2008), MOE23 (October 25th, 2008), neaguar (June 7th, 2009), pchurch (November 5th, 2008), tamsal (October 29th, 2008), Teknix38 (April 24th, 2009)
Old October 24th, 2008   #3 (permalink)
Veteran Abadss Member
 
Landscapeman's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,056
Credits: 3,366.58
Thanks: 3,103
Thanked 2,494 Times in 1,143 Posts
Beer
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

Nice Job Arboristman
__________________
They Who Drink Beer Will Think Beer.

Testing: Sonicview/Ihub, Viewsat, Neosat, Nfusion, Kbox.


Feels Good to be VIP
http://www.abadss.com/forum/payments.php

All information is for educational purposes only.
Landscapeman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Landscapeman For This Useful Post:
dmfan12 (October 24th, 2008), geojr (March 25th, 2009)
Old October 24th, 2008   #4 (permalink)
FTA Novice
 
shirke's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 61
Credits: 21.90
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 13 Posts
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

Looks like N3 going end of the FTA,maybe im wrong but im recording as much as i can well this is it,N3 going shutting down the FTA markets.
shirke is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to shirke For This Useful Post:
bigsexy (November 7th, 2008), dmfan12 (October 24th, 2008), geojr (March 25th, 2009)
Old October 24th, 2008   #5 (permalink)
Expert Site Helper
 
jayjay1972's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: los angeles,ca
Posts: 2,460
Credits: 1,363.50
Thanks: 249
Thanked 829 Times in 643 Posts
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

great post arb! Shirk, it doesnt mean its gonna end fta it might just put it on pause.
jayjay1972 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to jayjay1972 For This Useful Post:
56war (April 20th, 2009), dmfan12 (October 24th, 2008), geojr (March 25th, 2009), Gimpy13 (October 25th, 2008)
Old October 24th, 2008   #6 (permalink)
Knows FTA
 
matt1228's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: THE WINDYY CITY ~~~~~~
Posts: 322
Credits: 71.40
Thanks: 86
Thanked 79 Times in 55 Posts
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

we will just have to wait and see. the coders are good at this stuff and i bet that stbs too. so if there down were all down
matt1228 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to matt1228 For This Useful Post:
56war (April 20th, 2009), dmfan12 (October 24th, 2008), geojr (March 25th, 2009), Gimpy13 (October 25th, 2008)
Old October 24th, 2008   #7 (permalink)
Veteran Abadss Member
 
dmfan12's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 451
Credits: 497.73
Thanks: 287
Thanked 274 Times in 116 Posts
Beer: [July 27th, 2009] - Private Beer Beer
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

none the less it is always entertaining to see what is gonna happen next thanks arb ,only time will tell!!!
dmfan12 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dmfan12 For This Useful Post:
geojr (March 25th, 2009), lakers1one (October 25th, 2008)
Old October 24th, 2008   #8 (permalink)
Veteran Abadss Member
 
asg's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CALI
Posts: 1,666
Credits: 1,070.50
Thanks: 1,992
Thanked 1,996 Times in 463 Posts
N3 Fix Four Leaf Clover
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

Nice job arb leeetttssstttsss gggooo coders ur the best
asg is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to asg For This Useful Post:
geojr (March 25th, 2009)
Old October 24th, 2008   #9 (permalink)
Veteran Abadss Member
 
storman666's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: in a small town clinging to my guns and religion
Posts: 1,770
Credits: 327.40
Thanks: 539
Thanked 889 Times in 496 Posts
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shirke View Post
Looks like N3 going end of the FTA,maybe im wrong but im recording as much as i can well this is it,N3 going shutting down the FTA markets.
FTA will never end,there are many free to air channels.
__________________

storman666 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to storman666 For This Useful Post:
geojr (March 25th, 2009), Gimpy13 (October 25th, 2008), vashira (November 8th, 2008)
Old October 24th, 2008   #10 (permalink)
Veteran Abadss Member
 
fossil112's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,547
Credits: 2,033.40
Thanks: 3,721
Thanked 2,992 Times in 1,084 Posts
The World: [August 4th, 2009] - Private
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

Typically, coders who compromise encrypted signals are more intelligent than the encryption creators themselves, strictly because they're not bound to corporate rules. It's all about mathematics, which is bound by laws. There exists no possible algorithm, no possible code that is 100% locked down. It's just a matter of time before Nag3 becomes compromised...
__________________
- Fossil
God Bless
fossil112 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to fossil112 For This Useful Post:
antennahouse (January 19th, 2009), bbmfic (September 30th, 2009), DUDEMAN (March 10th, 2009), geojr (March 25th, 2009), Gimpy13 (October 25th, 2008), joeeking (November 4th, 2008), marianne (November 7th, 2008), morebeer (November 9th, 2008), packrat (April 10th, 2009), silver fox 8 (November 8th, 2008), Strappity (November 5th, 2008), woowee (January 31st, 2009)
Old October 24th, 2008   #11 (permalink)
VIP Access Member
 
dal bilkoski's Avatar
 
2 Highscores

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 930
Credits: 584.70
Thanks: 1,352
Thanked 631 Times in 430 Posts
Four Leaf Clover Four Leaf Clover Four Leaf Clover
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

good post arb really informative for myself and awhole bunch more thanks
dal bilkoski is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dal bilkoski For This Useful Post:
geojr (March 25th, 2009)
Old October 24th, 2008   #12 (permalink)
Titanium Member
 
baron1's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Somewere in Sometime
Posts: 1,178
Credits: 448.05
Thanks: 680
Thanked 530 Times in 388 Posts
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

we allways got news groups till we are back up and true fta
baron1 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to baron1 For This Useful Post:
geojr (March 25th, 2009), Gimpy13 (October 25th, 2008)
Old October 25th, 2008   #13 (permalink)
Knows FTA
 
Gimpy13's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 353
Credits: 349.95
Thanks: 324
Thanked 255 Times in 105 Posts
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

This is a C&P from BlackList

Members that visit the forum with any frequency, will know that a card swap has been underway for quite some time with two of the three main providers regularly discussed here.

This is nothing new. Card swaps happen when the providers elect to change or augment their encryption.

This swap is a conversion/migration from N**** 2 to N**** 3. The swap started with Bev, and then with DN.

Many of you are starting to experience and realize that something is occurring.

This is the news as simple as can be expressed:

The switch-over to N**** 3, on some channels on Nimiq 1/3 and Nimiq 2/4 has begun. Expect almost immediately for DN to follow suit.

Then again, those of you that visit, and contribute their time, knew this was coming months ago; those that didn't care to visit, and read or share their stories, experiences, or offered assistance to others, are now starting to "come home" seeking answers to a big question on their minds, "What is happening?"

The effects of this card swap will be felt by all.

Do not open posts asking why you are having scrambled channels, or why you can receive audio, but no video.

And especially, do not ask and/or open threads asking about N**** 3.
When we have positive, decisive information, it will be immediately reported in such a way that no one will have any further questions.
This is crucial: As more and more channels drop off, please, just wait patiently.

Once again: We will post information as it becomes available. Do not be fooled into thinking it will be easy.

We will report news as soon as we can.

Please respect that, and help our site run as smoothly as possible.

--------------------------------------------------------------

C & P from Cyphris

At this time there is no true N3 Hack for anything including IKS. This won't be for long though.

N3 is nothing more then a tweaked N2 and the ones who got you through MAP57 in 2006 are on it.
Gimpy13 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 30 Users Say Thank You to Gimpy13 For This Useful Post:
20072007 (October 31st, 2008), andresxp3 (October 27th, 2008), andymc1 (March 19th, 2009), arboristman (October 25th, 2008), asg (October 27th, 2008), baron1 (October 25th, 2008), bbeckham (June 18th, 2009), blakber (October 25th, 2008), DLung (November 5th, 2008), flx2050 (November 6th, 2008), geno23 (April 8th, 2009), geojr (March 25th, 2009), Gordon James (November 10th, 2008), jaycool (October 25th, 2008), Limeyde (November 2nd, 2008), markymark121 (November 4th, 2008), marty napier (October 29th, 2008), morebeer (November 9th, 2008), mugroso (October 27th, 2008), Netguy (October 25th, 2008), old76 (October 29th, 2008), packrat (April 10th, 2009), rugby39 (April 3rd, 2009), SatelliteJunkie (October 31st, 2008), Skillz (April 10th, 2009), snakebite (October 29th, 2008), solo93 (July 16th, 2009), tag46_ca (November 2nd, 2008), vashira (November 8th, 2008), woowee (January 31st, 2009)
Old October 25th, 2008   #14 (permalink)
VIP Access Member
 
derby62's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 855
Credits: 3,357.69
Thanks: 1,994
Thanked 2,478 Times in 314 Posts
Beer: [August 14th, 2009] Happy birthday my friend! Please make it a safe one! - dt8350 Beer: [August 14th, 2009] Here ya go buddy, Thanks and take Care my friend! - eclipsemoon Four Leaf Clover: [August 16th, 2009] This is for good luck for you!!  I know things will get better!  Thank you for your friendship Mike. - peggy13
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

Be AFRAID, be VERY AFRAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
I NEED MORE QUERVO GOLD!!!!
derby62 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to derby62 For This Useful Post:
geojr (March 25th, 2009)
Old October 25th, 2008   #15 (permalink)
Veteran Abadss Member
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,051
Credits: 769.85
Thanks: 217
Thanked 377 Times in 260 Posts
Re: nagravision 3(nagra 3/N3).what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

Abort, your the MAN! I think everyone trust and listen to you, you have always been up front with me, when I think of aba your the first person that comes to mind. Jay
jaycool is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jaycool For This Useful Post:
geojr (March 25th, 2009), peggy13 (October 27th, 2008)
Old October 26th, 2008   #16 (permalink)
Super Moderator
 
arboristman's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ABADSS.COM
Posts: 19,631
Credits: 22,068.58
Thanks: 4,732
Thanked 17,682 Times in 6,667 Posts
N3 Fix: [July 19th, 2009] - Private
Re: nagravision 3.what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimpy13 View Post
This is a C&P from BlackList
bl sure does speak better English than back in the day.haha
seriously tho,that's good to keep posting what all the coding teams are saying throughout the community here.thanks!
__________________
Latest FTA News --- ABAdss Blog


SV-HD8000-1080i-MULTIMEDIA-ATSC-DVR-Version2
S550 ''''''7100usb
600s premium '''mini pvr
X-1'''''''wintv-pvr-150

lost? click here to learn how to navigate abadss.com

are you a live support member?
receive top priority tech support here!


~~~Welcome To ABAdss,The Friendliest FTA Support Site On The Net!~~~The ABAdss Staff Wish You A Happy Free To Air Experience~~~advanced testers have multiple dishes,multiple lnbs,or a large dish with motor,for loads of unscrambled fta tv all the time.explore the sky.you never know what your going to see next.free legal tv from outer space!~~~
arboristman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to arboristman For This Useful Post:
geojr (March 25th, 2009), Gimpy13 (October 27th, 2008), just4ufolks (December 7th, 2008), RagingBull (October 26th, 2008), SatelliteJunkie (October 31st, 2008)
Old October 26th, 2008   #17 (permalink)
Live Support Member
 
Lounoproblem's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: RIVERSIDE
Posts: 723
Credits: 2,359.95
Thanks: 4,076
Thanked 3,213 Times in 506 Posts
N3 Fix: [August 24th, 2009] - Private
Send a message via AIM to Lounoproblem
Re: nagravision 3(nagra 3/N3).what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

I also lost all my channels from Nimiq 2 I am locate in sothern Cali. but I do have friend in northern Ohio who are still receiving all on there channels on Nimiq 2. So I am a little lost on what is really going on with this matter. I am still get Nimiq 1,3 with NO problem. So what is the real deal with that, did they change one and not the other. I really dont think son I have had Nimiq 2 acting up for the past two weeks. So that has been more than enough time for them to have changed Nimiq 1,3. For me its just a matter of time right now but I will be trying to hook up a bigger dish, and see what happens then.
__________________
DIAGNOSIS TESTER OF:H-H, FORTEC 30 W/QPH031; STATIONARY DN1000.2, DN 500, VS2000 PLATINUM, VS PLATINUM LITE, VS2000 ULTRA, AND CAPTIVEWORKS CW800S PVR.,SONICVIEW SV-HD8000 & THE NFUSION (IKE)

A THANKS IS ALWAYS GREATLY APPRECIATE!!!
Lounoproblem is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lounoproblem For This Useful Post:
geojr (March 25th, 2009), pulserrr (October 30th, 2008)
Old October 26th, 2008   #18 (permalink)
Super Moderator
 
arboristman's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ABADSS.COM
Posts: 19,631
Credits: 22,068.58
Thanks: 4,732
Thanked 17,682 Times in 6,667 Posts
N3 Fix: [July 19th, 2009] - Private
Re: nagravision 3(nagra 3/N3).what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lounoproblem View Post
I also lost all my channels from Nimiq 2 I am locate in sothern Cali. but I do have friend in northern Ohio who are still receiving all on there channels on Nimiq 2. So I am a little lost on what is really going on with this matter. I am still get Nimiq 1,3 with NO problem. So what is the real deal with that, did they change one and not the other. I really dont think son I have had Nimiq 2 acting up for the past two weeks. So that has been more than enough time for them to have changed Nimiq 1,3. For me its just a matter of time right now but I will be trying to hook up a bigger dish, and see what happens then.


ok that problem is actually different.
bev has changed birds for 82w.
they have replaced nimiq 2 with a bird named nimiq 4.
now your stbs still work fine to pick up and scan in this new bird even though your receivers still have it listed as the old bird nimiq 2.

the problem is,this new bird nimiq 4 at 82w has its beam devoted to the boys up in Canada only.at least for now.
this should change,and here is why.
many of our Canadian friends come down to visit,and or have places down in Florida,and other places,they have to catch some sun too hehe.
they then have "gray subscriptions" meaning they pay for bev,but receive it down in the states.
if bev wants to continue getting payed subscriptions from our visiting friends,they will need to tweak their new bird to beam down.but until that happens,many/most in fact,unless your in a state up by the northern provider,have lost their signal(quality) readings to 82w.
so this can "seem" like some sort of nagravision 3 problem to some.but it is not.
hope this helps.

* Another word for this is "Footprint" and they have been moving the footprint lately and folks up north are experiencing this...SJ (can't believe I can edit a SM. lol)
__________________
Latest FTA News --- ABAdss Blog


SV-HD8000-1080i-MULTIMEDIA-ATSC-DVR-Version2
S550 ''''''7100usb
600s premium '''mini pvr
X-1'''''''wintv-pvr-150

lost? click here to learn how to navigate abadss.com

are you a live support member?
receive top priority tech support here!


~~~Welcome To ABAdss,The Friendliest FTA Support Site On The Net!~~~The ABAdss Staff Wish You A Happy Free To Air Experience~~~advanced testers have multiple dishes,multiple lnbs,or a large dish with motor,for loads of unscrambled fta tv all the time.explore the sky.you never know what your going to see next.free legal tv from outer space!~~~

Last edited by SatelliteJunkie; October 31st, 2008 at 09:42 PM..
arboristman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to arboristman For This Useful Post:
arielbl (November 16th, 2008), fossil112 (October 29th, 2008), geojr (March 25th, 2009), Gimpy13 (October 27th, 2008), HOTROD32 (November 10th, 2008), Limeyde (November 2nd, 2008), marianne (November 7th, 2008), morebeer (November 9th, 2008), peggy13 (October 27th, 2008), snakebite (October 29th, 2008), vashira (November 8th, 2008)
Old October 27th, 2008   #19 (permalink)
Knows FTA
 
Gimpy13's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 353
Credits: 349.95
Thanks: 324
Thanked 255 Times in 105 Posts
Re: nagravision 3(N3).what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

no problem m8s, thats what WE ARE ALL HERE FOR, to work TOGETHER

We either sink or swim, but as a community, we do it together.

also, I had a sub-thought a few nights ago
I THINK (opinion, NOT FACT) that FTA WILL NOT DIE. I find it awfully strange that when a few of us HAD NOT update our stb's, we witnessed BASIC channels with b3v disappear into the N3 mist. by making sure our boxes were up to date, it fixed the problem for a while, until other channels such as premiums were "activated" in N3.
MY THOUGHT is that the files meant to fix 82W that also fixed 91W must contain the S06 code which is different for each "theme pack", meanig they're currently working on the fix to this (probably already have it). HOWEVER, DN has NOT gone active with ANY of the N3 (done using the G3 code), and hence I believe that the coders are TRULY waiting for G3 code to become active BEFORE releasing new fixes for N3.

my money is on ALL of us being back up by XMAS.

* I like the way you thing Gimpy! SJ

Last edited by SatelliteJunkie; October 31st, 2008 at 09:50 PM..
Gimpy13 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Gimpy13 For This Useful Post:
geojr (March 25th, 2009), henny888 (November 1st, 2008), SatelliteJunkie (October 31st, 2008)
Old October 27th, 2008   #20 (permalink)
Knows FTA
 
Gimpy13's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 353
Credits: 349.95
Thanks: 324
Thanked 255 Times in 105 Posts
Re: nagravision 3(N3).what is it,and what channels are affected by it?

Here's a list of channels that have switched to Nagra 3 so far:

Channel #/Channel Name/Satellite

180 - Super Écran 1 - 91
181 - SE2 - 91
300 - M - 91
301 - MMore - 91
305 - MPIX - 91
320 - Movie Central 1 - 91
321 - MC 2 -91
324 - EA1 - 91
413 - Xtreme Sports -91
423 - NHL Center Ice Extra - 91
426 - NHL Center Ice 1 - 91
427 - NHL Center Ice 2 - 91
428 - NHL Center Ice 3 - 91
429 - NHL Center Ice 4 - 91
534 - Bell E-016 - 91


156 - Vu! Tele a la carte HD 1 - 82
207 - CJNT Montreal - 82
222 - Thunder Bay TV Channel 4 - 82
223 - Thunder Bay TV Channel 2 - 82
224 - CTV Keewatin - 82
248 - Chat TV - 82
254 - Channel M - 82
257 - CFTK TV - 82
260 - PGTV - 82
274 - Game TV - 82
337 - Silver Screen Classics - 82
403 - Super Liga Soccer - 82
475 - HPI TV Canada - 82
476 - HPI International - 82
477 - HPI TV West - 82
516 - Saskatchewan Legislative Network - 82
530 - Bite TV - 82
574 - Cool TV info card - 82
578 - PunchMuch - 82
631 - Military Channel - 82
653 - EWTN Canada - 82
654 - Salt + Light TV - 82
697 - Sky TG 24 Canada - 82
699 - TLN en Espanol - 82
471 - CBSHE1 - 82
702 - ATN Channel - 82
704 - Alpha ETC Punjabi ATN - 82
705 - ATN Tamil Channel - 82
706 - B4U Movies ATN - 82
707 - Tamil Vision - 82
709 - DW-TV - 82
711 - TVP Polonia - 82
712 - Mega Cosmos Canada - 82
713 - OTN 1 - 82
714 - ERT World Canada - 82
715 - Phoenix North America Chinese Channel - 82
716 - Fairchild TV East - 82
718 - Fairchild TV West - 82
719 - Talentvision - 82
720 - NTV Canada - 82
721 - RTV International Plus Canada - 82
722 - RTV International Canada
723 - GMA Pinoy TV US - 82
727 - NDTV 24x7 ATN - 82
728 - ARY Digital ATN - 82
729 - SET USA - 82
730 - CBN - 82
780 - Playboy TV USA - 91
781 - AOV TV - 82
782 - Maleflixxx - 82
800 - CTV HD East - 82
801 - Global TV Ontario - 82
802 - CBC HD - 82
803 - City TV Toronto HD - 82
804 - CBC HD West - 82
806 - CTV HD West - 82
807 - Global TV Ontario - 82
808 - APTN HD - 82
809 - Treasure HD Canada - 82
810 - Oas*s HD - 82
811 - Rush HD Canada - 82
812 - Equator HD Canada - 82
813 - A&E - 82
814 - HDNet Canada - 82
815 - WHDH-TV (NBCHD - Boston) - 82
816 - WCVB-TV (ABCHD - Boston) - 82
817 - WBZ-TV (CBSHD - Boston) - 82
818 - WFXT-TV (FOXHD - Boston) - 82
819 - WGBH-TV (PBSHD - Boston) - 82
825 - WGN-TV (CWHD - Chicago) - 82
828 - National Geographic Channel Canada - 82
829 - Bell E******** HD promo - 82
830 - Vu! PPV HD 1 - 82
831 - Vu! PPV HD 2 - 82
832 - Vu! PPV HD 3 - 82
833 - Vu! PPV HD 4 - 82
838 - Showcase HD - 82
839 -Mpix HD - 82
840 - M HD - 82
841 - Movie Central HD 1 - 82
842 - Movie Central HD 2 - 82
843 - Super Channel 1 - 82
834 - Vu! PPV HD 5 - 82
844 - Super Channel HD 2 - 82
847 - Senators PPV - 82
848 - Leafs TV - 82
849 - Raptors NBA TV - 82
850 - TSN HD - 82
851 - Rogers Sportsnet HD - 82
852 - Rogers Sportsnet HD 2 - 82
853 - Discovery Channel HD Canada - 82
854 - Z Tele - 82
855 - VRAK-TV - 82
856 - Historia - 82
857 - Series+ - 82
858 - Canal Vie - 82
859 - Canal D - 82
860 - Radio-Canada HD - 82
861 - CFTM-TV - 82
862 - TQS Montreal - 82
863 - RDS - 82
865 - Super Ecran HD - 82
866 - NHL Center Ice HD 1 - 82
867 - NHL Center Ice HD 2 - 82
868 - NHL Center Ice HD 3 - 82
869 - NHL Center Ice HD 3 - 82
875 - Nascar Hotpass - 82
876 - Nascar HotPass - 82
880 - Skyway
451 - NFL Sunday Ticket 1 - 91
452 - NFL Sunday Ticket 2 - 91
453 - NFL Sunday Ticket 3 - 91
454 - NFL Sunday Ticket 4 - 91
455 - NFL Sunday Ticket 5 - 91
456 - NFL Sunday Ticket 6 - 91
457 - NFL Sunday Ticket 7 - 91
458 - NFL Sunday Ticket 8 - 91
459 - NFL Sunday Ticket 9 - 91
460 - NFL Sunday Ticket 10 - 91
465 - NFL Sunday Ticket HD 1 - 82
466 - NFL Sunday Ticket HD 2 - 82
467 - NFL Sunday Ticket HD 3 - 82
468 - NFL Sunday Ticket HD 4 - 82
469 - NFL Sunday Ticket HD 5 - 82
470 - NFL Sunday Ticket HD 6 - 82

well looks like all HD channels gone gentleman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimpy13 View Post
oops, forgot 302 in that list

Last edited by arboristman; October 27th, 2008 at 06:25 PM.. Reason: added quote.
Gimpy13 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to Gimpy13 For This Useful Post:
arboristman (October 27th, 2008), Bulafiji (March 30th, 2009), cranes (October 31st, 2008), dal bilkoski (November 4th, 2008), dmfan12 (November 1st, 2008), fossil112 (October 29th, 2008), geojr (March 25th, 2009), kino007 (December 6th, 2008), Limeyde (November 2nd, 2008), monoxid (November 1st, 2008), pansat2700auser (February 27th, 2009), patch (November 3rd, 2008), SatelliteJunkie (October 31st, 2008), Skillz (April 10th, 2009), vashira (November 8th, 2008)
Related Content   #1.5
ABAdss Site Sponsors
 
 
Posts: lots
Bot is online  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 
Search ABAdss
Find Top Dealers
What's New
Site Sponsors
Forum Stats
Translate ABADSS
Hot Deals
Tag Cloud
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:41 PM.

FTA Files

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.0

vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios
Copyright by ABADSS SystemAd Management by RedTyger


Vote for us at these links!

Enter DSS Top 33 and Vote for this site !!!  FTA Top List -- The Best Free to Air Sites on the Net!


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450