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Originally Posted by ftssucks
if i was DTV i would help us out..........:>
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Quote:
Originally Posted by website_vandal
I think this whole who cracked Nagra 2 discussion is like the bible....we will never really know. I'll throw another fly in the ointment and post this quote as well:
I know when I google nagravision 2 crack/hack there is a lot more written about Tarnovsky then about a hacker in Europe cracking it or even Blacklist for that matter. Oh well like I said we'll probably both be on opposite sides of the fence about this for now.
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The source of the rumors that Tarnovsky was responsible for the n2 crack(i.e. the claim that he released the card hack that coders from Viewsat, Pansat ..etc used to create N2 bins) is the Odd Thomas post. It spread around to all the fta sites and largely recieved an uncritical response. This lead to many to believe some of the claims of the post, such as Tarnovsky was responsible for us having (n2)tv, Tarnovsky is now working for Charlie, and has helped to create N3. Two of these claims are false, and if he was hired by Charlie it would have to have been very recent, within the last 9 months. He had offered his services to charlie just before the trial and had been refused. According to the wired article, he couldn't get another job with NDS or Charlie after the trial and was now working as an independent contractor. The Odd thomas post was created on 01-08-2009 at another site. The thread is called
"All member please read this, while I will try explain nagra 3 encryption" . Previous to this post I had never heard anyone claim that Tarnovsky(aka big gun) was responsible for the N2 crack. Perhaps you could find an article or post that predates the Odd Thomas posting that makes a similar claim.
Here is the Odd Thomas post in full, and a response to it by tyson01.(A respected member of the fta community)
Facts or Fiction About Nagra3
c/p Odd Thomas
All member please read this, while I will try explain nagra 3 encryption
Trying to answering the N3 question.
I will try and answer this question so many of you want to know, and do this as intelligently and in layman’s terms the best possible way I can so many of our members can understand it. Now I will only uses a few abbreviations in this post so that many of our newbie's can understand what I mean, I will uses this many times (N/A) meaning; North American Market.
Now to start with alot of rumors of coders waiting n3 is fully activated into the stream from each uplink transmission center owned by echo star Inc. I and many others’s underground believe this is false. The only reason all coders working in the FTA industry now have not introduced new codes for any FTA unit now is because they have nothing to work with. None of the n3 encryption information they need have been given to them as of yet. Why?
Well because until a (hacker) or a (group) of hacker's crack's the (G3) card used here in N/A the coders will not even be able to start to write any codes.
Question; so how long will it take?
I wonder; well the question really is will the information be leaked as it was before? Good question and I guess that might depend on how much money one or more companies are willing to pay. Or if the info could or will be leaked out again, and if! And I say this is every unlikely as the (SI) department is watching and guarding this info with their lives.
And might even kill to keep it!
It possible it will never be leaked out, or cracked in the next two years. Why so hard? n1 and n2 were hacked? Why not n3?
Now the best answer to that is because of past (hackers) themselves, the number #1 in Europe has been hired by the company that owns the makers of nagra3 encryption system.
Who is that you ask? Well let’s uses alittle history to answer these questions.
He is Chris Tarnovsky the founding member of the (Black Hat's) a German hacker group that showed many of the worlds hackers just how to break into the security systems of the cards themselves. And now he has been hired by the same company he hacked before, and you know the first thing they wanted to know is (How he hacked their cards).
And what could be gone to (stop hackers) in the future, this is one every good reason hackers in Spain/England and the Eastern Block's have not been able to break into the new Video Guard/Europe codes for the last two years now.
Now then video guards codes used in Europe are different than the codes used here in the states with ***/charlie, but the info needed still remains the same. NDS took 6 months (trying) to break into the n2 cards themselves it was until tarnovsky was paid 6 figures that he broke the cards down in less than a week, which blew away NDS big-time. After that all the info needed was gotten from the cards used in a month and coders then used the MAPCALL codes to write the bin files needed. This took about 5 to 6 months to complete. Now coders have several more tools to use in writing codes, this makes it alot faster and easier to write codes now, this is why we have new bin files released in matter of hours not month's or week's nor even days. Most files today are wrote on a complier within minutes and released to the general internet of (broadcaster) within 2 to 4 hours.
Now let me give you alittle history lesson "Rupert Murdoch" owns dave and (NDS) a subsidiary of the media group news corp. a company setup for the purpose of hacking charlie n2 cards, setup in 1999 this in Israeli for the purpose of hacking and releasing the codes over the internet. Why?
Well because he and "Charlie Ergen" the owner of charlie tried to merge both their companies twice once in 1997, and again in 2000 and the FCC forced them to stay apart. Why? Because of what many call "Capitalism” or we might call "free market". Guess the government was afraid they would have something called a "MONOPLY" yelpers just like the game, where one company rules the whole industry all over the N/A market. Like the steel industries where in the 1880 here in the US before the feds hacked them apart into alot of little company’s so they could not control the whole north American market and set prices to whatever they wish.
Now since dave and charlie have been in a lawsuit since 2002, which is just now in a federal court in California last month over this very subject. dave and charlie have been fighting between there selves. This is back to the reason dave hacked and released the n2 codes to stab charlie right in the back. Why? Well because Rupert Murdoch does not want charlie to have a greater market share of satellite tv industry in the US and that pretty much says it all.
Now back to who writes Nagra codes? A company called Kudelski Group owns *********** they are the producers of the Nagra 3 codes, and have invented all 3 of the Nagra codes used in the N/A market since charlie/echo star started in the US.
Now what’s been going on in the past week?
Well since Christmas week (all) DTH Satellite uplink centers have been broadcasting both codes at the same time, yes n2/n3 codes. This has some good points to it, meaning that each new (G3) card has both accesses (CW) both (public) and (private) codes for both sets of encrypting the EMMs and CAMs. Coders can use this very small amount of known information to help start a solution on coding eliminators or better known as (FTA) Receivers.
Although I'm absolutely positive that until the private (CW) codes are known the coders are not going to be able to current vent the security encryption of Nagra 3 unless the hackers are successful in peeling away the 3 extra layers of silicone security chips using a powerful electron microscope and several different acids and lasers first until they get to the final precious bottom 3 layers of the Kudelski chip where all the precious codes are hidden. This is the part where only the best hackers (engineers) have the ability to do this type of work.
So please members do not think for one minute that any “back yard” computer “guru” hacker can break this type of security system, I’m sorry it just ain’t going to happen. EVER
So what some of us do know is that without Chris Tarnovsky techniques that allow him to break open chip cards that block access to pay TV chains the whole world would still be without paid satellite tv. Is there hope for us yes! ofcourse it is always possible out of the hundreds of labs setup in different countries hackers are working on this problem now.
But remember they have to have several things, first access to (G3) cards, unissued cards open and clean meaning; cards that have not been imbedded with maintenance access codes, and user access codes used to track the customer uses of this system, PPV Events, PPV Movies, Porn and so on. This is very important and requires someone from the inside of the manufacturing department, of the (SI) department itself. But this is not likely to happen with that amount of screening done by the company’s for their personal. And that each person has to allow the company into their lives, banking records, and life styles.
So how long will it take before any group of coders have a fix for n3, well depending on the amount of info on the new (G3) cards they might have to run on a complier for several days, or using (banks of compliers) for several weeks. It’s still unknown the amount of new process in the map codes used on these new chips. Estimate run all over the place so nobody actually knows for sure, best guess is 6 months to a year before the info needed becomes a new file for release.
So what is the FTA manufacturing doing about this?
Some are still under lawsuits now brought by echo star and charlie and may not be doing anything at all, but again it is possible some have already hired hackers or paid hackers to break into the G3 encryption systems and this is where we are now. And I would bet you a hundred to a dime that’s a 1000+1 odds that “if and when these codes” are broken and released on the internet we all will know it the same day. And on that day I bet the coders will start working on the solutions to n3 problem A.S.A.P
So until the whole of the internet is busting out with this info "HACK" we will be in the dark. That’s just a fact of life.
Whether this is good news or bad doesn’t matter to me, it’s just the truth about where we stand right now.
I hope this has atleast help explain things alittle more "this is not a rumor" nor perdition of any kind just facts you all need to know. And the last information I can post this week. As I will be in the hospital in on friday for some tests.
Written by: 0dd Thomas
c/p from Tyson01
Well lots of errors in the above, large ones too, lol.
N3 cards can do N3 decryption only, there would NEVER be a Provider smart card made that would overlap 2 different decryptions, it would defeat the purpose of changing to a new decryption.
N3 EMMs are in the stream now on all channels because charlie could not send out even 1 new N3 card without that.
N2 EMMs are still in the stream because not all the N2 subbed cards have been swapped out.
Yes, about the part that no one can do anything about N3 until a charlie and BEV N3 card dump/read has happened, period.
Chris Tarnovsky is a great card hacker, but the N1 and N2 cards had security issues, same with daves, F, H and Hu cards, so while Chris Tarnovsky is a great hacker and is do respect for that, he is certainly not "the reason you have freeTV".
N1 cards had an overflow issue in the RAM, allowing card hackers in.
N2 cards(ROM101/102/103) allowed "dirty" EMMs to sit in RAM while cards were Glitched.
These cards were actually hacked by "backyard" hackers(what Chris Tarnovsky was before he got famous, lol), not with leaked info, same with dave cards, no leaked info involved.
I have no doubt Nagra tries to hack NDS cards and NDS tries to hack Nagra cards, thats just good business, need to know what the competition is doing right or wrong, lol.
The SI(signal integrity) guys at charlie and BEV do not have a clue as to whats inside a card, they do not need that info to do their jobs, only source of that info is either IN the card itself or in a safe somewhere in Switzerland.
All recent card hacks have come from "Glitching" the cards processor, glitching means changing voltage or timing abruptly causing a fault in the processor and hopefully causing it to jump around any security or jump into a hackers routine.
daves new cards actually corrupt the data on the card if they are glitched, this is why there has been no dave freeTV since this new card was put into use, no way to get the card info, its corrupted if you do get any.
This dave(NDS) anti-glitching success will not go unnoticed by Nagra, lol, so I would assume the N3 will have this or something similar, NDS would have a patent on their version.
I am sure Chris Tarnovsky helped in this, he was a master at it.
As far as "onion peeling" smart card chips, not any more, that method was defeated a while ago, they use layers that corrupt the layer above or below if disturbed, so any info gained in this manner would be useless.
It is, as it has always been, if "they" have left a security hole in their card the "backyard hackers" will find it.
If no weakness is found in the N3 then its over.
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Re: What FTA Team will Crack N3 First?
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Re: What FTA Team will Crack N3 First?
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